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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 10, 2011 - 10:36am PT
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If indeed Paterno knew about such abuse, he is as guilty as the abuser. I know how child abuse can be destructive and destroy people's lives. And to those on the forum who try to defend him, maybe you should look in the mirror and do a reality check.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Nov 10, 2011 - 10:47am PT
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the grand jury report is pretty disturbing...a total predacious pedophile thriving at penn state, using a charity to groom his victims. he was pulling this sh#t as far back as 98, probably a lot longer. there's no way people weren't talking about this fuker,including paterno. no way in hell.
Complicit to child molestation..is there a lower crime in this country?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 10, 2011 - 11:01am PT
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I might be more disturbed by the students rioting than Paterno protecting his friend.
I would like to hear from our legal minds here on this:
"Paterno met his legal obligation to report the incident to his superior but many,
including the state's police commissioner, felt the coach fell short of
his "moral responsibility" to alert authorities." Chris Dufresne/LA Times
My wife says she is legally obligated to report abuse she sees in the
medical field directly to the appropriate agency, not just to her superior. Why
is it any different for anybody else?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Nov 10, 2011 - 11:25am PT
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To all things a season. Even Joe Paterno.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Nov 10, 2011 - 11:37am PT
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The hero worship of coaches is purt near sickening. He sheltered a molester, and he will be remembered for it. That is what HE'S come to.
DMT
+1
Hero worship in general is getting out of hand (regarding everything not just college coaches). Entertaining to watch at times.
This is a sickening situation. I can't believe this was allowed to happen. New alligations suggest that his assistant actuall pimped young boys to rich 'sponsors.' This is a developing story and we may hear more shocking news regarding this case.
Can't believe something like that can happen on a major University campus in United States...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 10, 2011 - 12:30pm PT
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The "University" of Football has a lot to answer for.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Nov 10, 2011 - 12:31pm PT
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"My wife says she is legally obligated to report abuse she sees in the
medical field directly to the appropriate agency, not just to her superior. Why is it any different for anybody else?"
It is prob different because your wife is subject to California law, which likely differs from Penn. law.
To have any informed view on this, we'd need to see the law(s) that Paterno is subject to and see whether it clearly does or does not apply, or is ambiguous. (From media reports, there's no way it clearly applies, or else Paterno would have been charged.)
As background, note that the "default" is that no one is obligated to report crimes to the police.
Interesting to me that the Paterno seems to be getting a lot flack but not the grad student who apparently saw the abuse. All Paterno had is a hearsay report about something that had already happened--that seems totally different from actually witnessing an ongoing crime.
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Gary
climber
From the City That Dreams
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
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The only idiots are in the GOP debates.
Everyone who had knowledge of this and did nothing is culpable. Morally if not legally. Sure seems like the entire university structure was aiding and abetting this guy, though.
One rumor on the radio is that there was a signed agreement between Sandusky and the university that he wouldn't rape anymore children. If that's true, that's just abominable.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Nov 10, 2011 - 12:40pm PT
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Looks like the Penn statute pasted below is what may apply to Paterno.
My quick view (withoug seeing how the statute may have been applied by courts or doing anything else that lawyer would do to reach a professional judgment) is that it shouldn't even apply in this case, as the victim was not a "child coming before" Paterno.
The media reports seems to be that Paterno likely isn't guilty because his report to his superior was sufficient, but I don't see why you even need to go there.
§ 42.42. Suspected child abuse—mandated reporting requirements.
(a) General rule. Under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6311 (relating to persons required to report suspected child abuse), licensees who, in the course of the employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall report or cause a report to be made to the Department of Public Welfare when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse.
(b) Staff members of public or private agencies, institutions and facilities. Licensees who are staff members of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, and who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse. Upon notification by the licensee, the person in charge or the designated agent shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with subsections (a), (c) and (d).
Edit--Riley, I got the above just from quick Googling, not reading the GJ reports. So if I missed the right law, then I'm a dumb arse and I'll delete this post.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 10, 2011 - 12:42pm PT
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The criminal law of Pennsylvania would in all cases override any internal policy of the university.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Nov 10, 2011 - 12:48pm PT
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As long as colleges serve as the minor leagues of professional basketball and football, disturbing and illegal behavior will persist. Universities seem to have a complete lack of ability to make good decisions with regard to sports and money.
The big man on campus syndrone afflicts players and coaches.
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plund
Social climber
OD, MN
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Nov 10, 2011 - 02:16pm PT
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I don't understand why the grad assistant's (former football player, right?) reaction wasn't to quickly look around for something to break over Sandusky's perv head (like a chair or 45# weight bar), THEN worry about telling someone....
"Hey, this guy was buggering a kid, so I cold-cocked him. Do you JoePa wanna call the cops or should I"
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Nov 10, 2011 - 03:00pm PT
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I bet this case will be the first in a long line to come concerning pedophilia. The next group to go will be the politicians who have been involved in this crap. You know it's happening, the UN got caught turning a blind eye to their contractors molesting young kids and nothing happened and was swept under the rug. I hope this will be the crack in the dam that exposes all these demons.
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Kurt Ettinger
Trad climber
Martinez, CA
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Nov 10, 2011 - 03:06pm PT
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Maybe I missed this.... Why did these allegatioins come out now, NINE years after the shower incident (happened in 2002 right?)
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Gene
climber
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Nov 10, 2011 - 03:14pm PT
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I don’t understand why the grad assistant didn’t immediately call the cops as mandated by law and common decency. He saw the rape in progress, called his father, left the gym and contacted Paterno the next day. He left the 10 year old and rapist alone in the gym!
The grad assistant is now an assistant coach at PSU and will be working Saturday’s game.
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monolith
climber
berzerkly
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Nov 10, 2011 - 03:21pm PT
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Yep, everyone learning about the situation should have gone to the cops, including the father of the assistant.
And what Kurt said, anybody know how the allegations became public? Did one of the victims eventually go to the authorities?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Nov 10, 2011 - 03:51pm PT
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To not ensure that the on-campus abuses were reported to police is certainly negligence. Whether or not it's felonious is not clear to me.
It's not clear that, excluding lying to the Grand Jury, anyone has committed a felony in Pennsylvania.
Pennsylvania
Failure to Report
Cons. Stat. Ch. 23, § 6319
A mandatory reporter who willfully fails to report as required commits a misdemeanor of the third degree for the first violation and a misdemeanor of the second degree for a second or subsequent violation. http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/reportall.pdf
Mandatory reporters are usually child welfare agencies, schools where the child is enrolled, etc. Were the Penn State administration "mandatory reporters"? Even if they were, it's only a misdemeanor.
All of them behaved unethically/immorally in not taking it to the police and will certainly be spending time in civil court defending their coverup.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 10, 2011 - 04:00pm PT
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This is really a much larger indictment of the entire college sports/industrial complex and the obsessive nature of sports fans.
Dingus is on the right track here. Sports fanaticism, in whatever country and for whatever sport, leads to this. The blind support of "our team" is no different than blind support of anything else. Blind support of religion, of city, state or country... blind support of anything is what allows abuses like this to continue.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Nov 10, 2011 - 04:51pm PT
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To not ensure that the on-campus abuses were reported to police is certainly negligence. Whether or not it's felonious is not clear to me.
It's not clear that, excluding lying to the Grand Jury, anyone has committed a felony in Pennsylvania.
It's not at all certain to me that there was any "negligence" on the part of Paterno, at least in the legal sense of the word meaning giving rise to a civil cause of action.
Paterno didn't do anything, and in general you don't have any legal duty to come to the aid of third parties or report crimes or, from the big picture point of view, get involved in situations that don't really involve you. There are exceptions to the general rule, but it's not clear to me that any would apply to Paterno. (I suppose the argument will be something along the lines that the perp was a de facto employee and there was some sort of "negligent supervision").
Notwithstanding this, if/when the victims sue Penn State and Paterno and everyone peripherally involved, I'd expect a nice settlement to be going there way.
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