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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jun 24, 2011 - 06:01pm PT
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It sounds like he probably fell getting into or past that pod thing?
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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Jun 24, 2011 - 06:12pm PT
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I am not sure how far of a walk there was but walking at all on a leg with a break of both the tibia and fibula would be extremely difficult and painful.
As posted above, that is the sort of injury that could be compounded with each step taken.
There would and should be no shame in getting help. Don't let the testosterone interfere with sound thinking and judgment.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jun 24, 2011 - 07:03pm PT
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A rough back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests that no more than about 10% of the follower's fall energy would have been absorbed, and that is assuming absolutely no slack in the rope at the moment of falling. Given a normal amount of slack, it is possible that the rope did almost nothing.
This is a real problem for seconds when faced with low difficulties when the leader has utilized modern ropes to their limit. If there are low difficulties, it is worth considering whether a shorter lead might not be in the second's best interest, in the same way that one thinks about protection for the second on a traverse. Many long leads involve linking pitches and so passing perfectly good belay stances.
Long leads are almost never essential, otherwise no one would have been getting up these routes when ropes were 150 feet (or 120 feet for some of the earlier routes). It seems to me that linking pitches has become a fad, unrelated to any need in reality to save time, and is done more or less because it can be done. A good climb doesn't necessarily have to be blasted into oblivion in record time; there is such a thing as savoring the experience rather than gulping it down and getting it over with---most climbs are not some kind of bad-tasting medicine.
This is not meant as any kind of judgement about this particular incident, about which I surely know nothing, but rather a general comment on a trend which seems to me to have gone beyond the realm of rationality.
Best wishes to the second for a full recovery.
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marv
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Jun 24, 2011 - 07:15pm PT
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seconding is dangerous!!!!
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jun 24, 2011 - 07:46pm PT
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Rich, excellent comments about linking pitches. In the old days
if a suitable belay was found in 50 feet, you'd stop there, bring up
the second, and keep moving on.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Jun 24, 2011 - 08:35pm PT
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linking isnt always about speed-
its damn fun to climb for 440 feet- following- minimal changeover and lead on
and c'mon- it's usually faster- if a strong party can go fast with 15 pitches- then the very same party will probably be faster with 9- 6 less anchors to build, six less changeovers.
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M. Volland
Trad climber
Grand Canyon
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Jun 24, 2011 - 08:50pm PT
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Friends don't let friends call SAR
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 24, 2011 - 08:55pm PT
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Friends don't let friends call SAR
...unless they have any inkling of the further damage that very likely
could be done by walking on a broken leg. Not a good decision. I would also
counsel your friend to have a bone density test done. That shouldn't happen.
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Chateau Rico
Sport climber
Davis, CA
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Jun 24, 2011 - 09:12pm PT
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I broke my tib/ fib at the base of North Peak couloir 15 years ago. Lieing there, I tried to stand up and weight it and it was impossible for me. Instead, we splinted it and I crawled, and my partner and I lowered off the peak. When we reached a snow field at the bottom, I was getting pretty exhausted from crawling, the crawling being done by lifting my broken leg, and scooting forward using both arms and the other leg, repeatedly lifting it and scooting, over and over. Eventually we gave up, it was miles to go, and I waited while SAR was dragged in (much to my embarassment!) I layed in that snow field about 10 hours.
Since then I read Touching the Void in which the author walked and fell alot over difficult terrain with a broken leg and now in this thread where that poor guy walked out, holy cow! Again, it's hard to fathom, since your body is screaming at you to keep that thing still plus it hurts like hell and it's BIG PAIN!
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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Jun 24, 2011 - 09:18pm PT
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Way to deal with it.
Thanks for that insight, rgold.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 24, 2011 - 09:25pm PT
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I've witnessed these type of accidents a couple of times.
Belayer starts climbing a few feet and falls.
Rope stretch is big.
Belayer turfs into ground/ledge.
Belayer starts moaning and groaning .........
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jun 24, 2011 - 09:27pm PT
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I want to be explicit: my comment about not self-rescuing is based on the specific injury described. Several other posters, with some experience, have made the same point. I would prefer not to sound so critical of davcro’s and his partner’s decision, but I think that any climber in a similar situation should consider the alternative.
If the tibia and fibula are both broken and the foot is twisted off to the side, then there is a good chance that setting them will require surgery and a non-weight bearing cast until it heals. Further damage can complicate putting it all back together. If the breaks are near the ankle joint, the soft tissue that holds the bones together can be further damaged by the broken bones and the displacement. These tissues do not heal easily or well. With this kind of break, the risk of long lasting pain, arthritis and limited mobility are real likelihoods—not what a committed climber would want to deal with.
When you are close to the road, getting help to limit the risk of further damage is better than hobbling around for the rest of your life wishing you could still hike and climb. I agree with the Fet that getting to the ground seems reasonable (moving down rock on with a rope and a belayer is pretty stable) but then waiting for help to get back to the car. You don’t need an ambulance ride, you just need to keep your foot from flapping around and need to reduce the risk that you will lose your balance and fall on it again. Just having two helpers to get back to the car could make a huge difference.
When you have an injury, the body’s endorphin response and the process of inflammation usually cut the pain and make it seem sensible to get out on your own power. But this response has nothing to do with the sensibility of risking further injury when you don’t have to. There is no harm in evaluating all of the risks, especially when the injury is not life threatening.
I do hope that davcro’s partner heals well and completely (and that davcro gets his gear back.)
Good comments Rich.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Jun 24, 2011 - 09:35pm PT
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I second the bone density test. Two major breaks with that mechanism of injury seems abnormal.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jun 25, 2011 - 12:04am PT
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hey there say, davcro... first off, to your partner, get well soon...
:)
say, roger, and all...
a friend of mine, she broke her foot in near the same places... she had to call rescue, etc, from inside her house...
well--AFTER she had it FIXED she did the ol' walking around on it, and doing stuff that moved it too much (so think of how bad it is to do this when it IS broken)and:
she'd had trouble with it ever since AND it took TWICE as long to heal and the doc was also upset about this...
:O
for your partner:
well, take care, getting well...
*i know at the time, though, that each guy or gal must weight their own heart and deside...
god bless to you both, you sound like a dedicated loyal team to each other and good friends, as well...
hope you live near by him enough, to keep helping him out, too...
as he gets well...
:)
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R.B.
Trad climber
Land of the Lahar
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Jun 25, 2011 - 01:04am PT
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I was climbing the second pitch at Cookie Cliff, Catchy Corner, 5.11a. I was half way up. Working thru the crux near the top of the off fingers (for me)I got pumped. Not able to hold on, I chose to downclimb back down thru the crux but fell about 10 feet above last piece. It held, but on the way falling down, I somehow whipped major.
Broke my heel into five pieces, screamed like a cry baby. Was lowered to the ledge at the top of Catchy, 5.10d. I then did the "one-foot" rappel, meaning: that I had to rap Catchy with only one foot for balance. I made the mistake of taking off my climbing shoe ... yeouch! My broken heel swelled instantly to a grapefruit.
My friend, bob, gave me a piggy back ride down from the base to the truck. Went back to the Lower River C.G. in Yos. and dipped my huge heel into the glacial fed Merced. Felt so good. Went back to my tent, whimpering and crying from pain hours later (I don't like going to the doctor) and eventually the paramedics were called and I got to go to the Yos. Med. Clinic for x-rays.
Anyways. Sometimes ... self rescue is all there is. I certainly didn't care about the gear I left to bail on when my friend lowered me from the half way point on Catchy Corner.
Beware of 5.11 overhanging dihedral fingers ... the ride down might get you.
Edit: Glad everyone is OK
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jun 25, 2011 - 01:23am PT
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r.b., sorry to hear that!
Heal!!!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jun 25, 2011 - 10:15am PT
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Always good news to hear about a successful self-rescue, but bad news about the injuries.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Jun 25, 2011 - 10:21am PT
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No doubt. Hope your healing goes well.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Jun 25, 2011 - 12:23pm PT
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to those who think the lesson here is about self rescue or YOSAR rescue-
let me point out:
the lesson here is more simple than that-
don't fall when you are above a ledge!
but seriously, not to be a dick or anything, but maybe someone who is going to fall in that section of slightly awkward but not very difficult climbing has not a lot of business doing a sort of early season (at least in such a wet yr) ascent of a notoriously weeping line, and maybe a less rope stretching lead (i.e. shorter pitches off of ledges) would be more accommodating to the experience level of the follower.
that's not meant to be critical, really, that's just the reality of cutting your teeth climbing outside. that route sees a fair amt of free solo ascents and is honestly pretty casual climbing, but people take it for granted and sometimes pay the price for not being cautious and putting in their time.
wrt the OP, best wishes to all involved, and let me pass on my hopes for a speedy recovery to the injured climber, and may everyone reading this thread be honest with themselves and their partners about their skills, their experience, and their motivations.
cheers.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jun 25, 2011 - 01:15pm PT
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don't fall when you are above a ledge!
I kinda agree. It's kinda obvious. I would just add that you should be mindful of your landing zones at all times in case of a fall. Like bouldering.
The problem here is that you think you're safe on a TR. Obviously, you're not.
Be mindful of where you're gonna land.
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