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78Westy
Trad climber
bored in my office
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 16, 2011 - 08:46pm PT
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i have a different perspective. if you are not climbing up to your potential now, then its not your jobs fault. it takes drive and determination in whatever path you choose. there are plenty of examples of excellent climbers who also were professionals. George Lowe, Steve Hong for instance.
I know what determination is. I finished my degree, got my first job, climbed a few 14ers in colorado during the winter, all the while dealing with cancer.
Climbing high grades is not the real point. I go to the climbing gym 4x a week. I'm not physically all that gifted, but I deal with the body I've been dealt. The job sucks the life out of me. That is demoralizing, and I'm sure my climbing/eating habits suffers because of it, no matter how much determination I have to not make it an issue. Admittedly, I don't use the hangboard and I could stand to increase my pull-ups by about a factor of 4. But I'm working on it.
Climbing outside is obviously a different beast. I'm leading 5.6-5.8 to solidify my gear placing and the head game, not because it is taxing my climbing ability.
Being in beautiful places and living in the moment is my goal, not to climb 5.12. Although if it happens, I wouldn't complain.
Obviously, this would be temporary. I don't plan on figuring out where my next meal will come from. A couple of years max. Perhaps 1 year. Perhaps 3 years, perhaps 3 months. I just need to shake it up a bit.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Jun 16, 2011 - 09:46pm PT
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If you have ti ask...
You probably are!!!
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R.B.
Trad climber
Land of the Lahar
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Jun 16, 2011 - 10:01pm PT
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I quit college, caught a ride to the valley to climb in the Valley; lived in camp four a little longer than the 2-week limit. I got hired (actually rehired -- I worked a summer before) to work in the village grocery store.
I thought I would climb a lot that first summer I worked there ... no dice, worked you thin. Went back and worked a little off season after doing the second time around. Was going good, then one day I decided to lead Catchy Corner at the Cookie Cliff (5.11a overhanging fingertip lyback) ... short story, took a whipper, fractured my heel, couldn't work anymore ... moved back home, worked a job away for about 7 months, then decided to go back to college.
If you are making 100k, can't you work half a year and earn enough to climb 6 months without working, by then you will have enough of the climbing bug under your belt that it will give you the time to clear your thoughts.
Your health is everything ... and not working may be just what the doc ordered. Do the cobra, and don't worry about it too much.
It is hard times for most people in today's economy, however as a PHD chemist, you probably can apply for fed work as an enviro. chemist. Might be worth a try to put in job app. while you're on that 6 month vaca.
You can't take money with you ... enjoy the ride.
One other thing ... is your girl friend on board with it all? or in the picture?
No kids, not married ... peice of cake ... go for it!
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matisse
climber
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Jun 16, 2011 - 10:35pm PT
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After medical school and interning (of which I hated every single freaking minute) I went skiing for 4 years. I had a ball. I still worked in the summer, but the winters were for me. I'm Canadian so I didn't have to figure out the whole health insurance thing. People would ride up with me on the chairlift and say-wow I really wish I could do what you do and I would always tell them it was easy-you just have to do it. I went back to school because I eventually got bored with drinking beer and skiing, and now I have a great job- I do high altitude research.
My S.O. did the same thing- was a CPA at a big 5 accounting firm (Arthur Anderson) and left to climb full time for 6 years. -didn't look so silly after Anderson went tits up with whole Enron thing. He finally went back to work and now works in biotech doing international tax.
You never know how these things will turn out. For every door that closes a new one opens. You gotta ask yourself what is the worst thing that could happen? Can you deal with that? How? If you have that worse case contingency figgered out-what are you waiting for? If that big horrible bad thing doesn't happen (and it probably won't) odds are you can just go back to work in some fashion using your PhD. Not like you aren't educated and don't have any options. Some kind of catastrophic med coverage is essential though-get a 5-10K deductible and at least you'll have some coverage if something bad happens.
Edited to agree with R.B. above - I don't know why you would bother to try to get some menial BS job paying min wage though-just go climbing.
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Lace
climber
las vegas, nv
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Jun 16, 2011 - 11:10pm PT
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Wow. I'm in my 3rd year working on a PhD in organic chemistry. This thread is exactly why I question my motives for finishing this degree. I leave for the Valley tomorrow night to do (attempt?) my first wall and am terrified of having to come back to this lab, this lifestyle, and ultimately the pursuit of what is not my passion. Jeez.. You aren't crazy. I'd say you are more crazy for suppressing your happiness for some title or 100k job.
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78Westy
Trad climber
bored in my office
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 16, 2011 - 11:49pm PT
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One other thing ... is your girl friend on board with it all? or in the picture?
Yep. She submitted an application today to work there. She is also in the same boat. Good job at UCSF.
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tinker b
climber
the commonwealth
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Jun 17, 2011 - 12:12am PT
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I don't think you are crazy, but I would check out some of the park service jobs. check out work in maintenance, trails, resource management, wilderness, particularly in the high country. the people who I know up there really love it, and you might have more in common with them than dnc folks.
there is more to this world than money, and if your work jeopardizes your health it is not worth it.
good luck.
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malabarista
Trad climber
PA, then AZ, then CO, Now CA, soon OR
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Jun 17, 2011 - 12:19am PT
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78Westy, I would not do this without a trial period. See if you can get a month off of your current job to decompress without losing the job. If after a month off you still feel the same, then go for it. But I have gone from six figure job to zero last year because I also was fed up and it did not suit me at all. I found that I need to work and get satisfaction from it despite it being terribly stressful and unsatisfying sometimes. Being in my late 30's without a job wasn't something I enjoyed the same way I did in my 20's. I was quite surprised when I found this out about myself. I thought I could just be a barista. Wasn't true for me. Just my two cents.
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R.B.
Trad climber
Land of the Lahar
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Jun 17, 2011 - 12:30am PT
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You won't get rich (or even break even) working for MCA (pardon the pun) ... but working for 100k with a little bit of savings you can arrange a trip of a lifetime in the western USA for about what little you'd spend in opportunity cost working for a NPS concessionaire.
Pull deep, you can do it ... freedom is priceless. You both will really dig it (not being tied down to a min. wage job) and being able to blast and do what you want to.
Just saying. Either way, if you know it's time to go on the big buck job, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Good luck, you will be ok on the other side!
RB
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reddirt
climber
PNW
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Jun 17, 2011 - 01:04am PT
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can you work out a sabbatical? or do cobra (even though it's horrendously expensive?
Single payer insurance options really depends on the state that you have residency in... each state does it so differently. Some states have decent pools for those who have already gotten rejected from private companies. I shopped for mine at ehealthinsurance.com - super helpful customer service, in my experience. Also, if you've been in remission for a big chunk of time, you may not get rejected.
singed,
'87 westie
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 17, 2011 - 01:25am PT
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I think a lot of these posts focus on the wrong thing: salary. Unless you will be totally fulfilled just to be in the Valley every day - and that may be, I can easily understand that possibility - what really matters is how much time you have to climb; which from the sound of things is pretty much none, or maybe one day a week, if you work for DNC. With your present job, you could easily just get a room every weekend and have TWO days a week to climb as a weekend warrior.
Or consider relocating to somewhere a lot closer and taking a slightly-less-crummy-than-DNC job and hitting the Valley all the time, even for single days mid-week 'cause you're that close.
That said, if your job sucks, you're not happy, it's affecting your health, by all means act on some plan B. But focus on what you most want to achieve by the change and configure the plan around that. Is it time off to climb? location? other?
Yes, insurance that isn't provided by an employer is a bitch, and costs a lot. But that cost is worth it to me to arrange work the way I wanted to (namely, self-employed). Don't know if that works in chemistry, but maybe?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jun 17, 2011 - 01:37am PT
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hey there say 78Westy.... say, i will be praying for the good lord to help you get all this to fall into place the right way, as to if you should, then, how you should and all the rest...
god bless....
best wishes...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 17, 2011 - 06:23am PT
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Leaving a job that has lost meaning is not crazy, going to live in Yosemite may be.
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Jun 17, 2011 - 07:40am PT
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I am a retired teacher. My first year teaching was pure hell. I was teaching machine shop in a tough situation. I took the job in October after the 1st teacher quit- 1 month on the job. All the equipment in the shop was broken, ( I didn't know this when hired), and the kids were real bad.
I came down with a rare skin condition which resulted in loosing all the skin on my feet and hands. I was walking with a cane in school!! This was caused by stress! I went thru a few doctors before being put on prednisone and valium.
Stress can kill you!
I did turn that classroom completely around by the end of the year quite successfully, but it took a toll on me. I had many great years as a teacher and the summers off.
With a PHD in chemistry, have you considered teaching in high school? Decent pay with medical benefits and quite a bit of free time to play.
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kennyt
climber
woodfords,ca
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Jun 17, 2011 - 10:11am PT
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YES.
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78Westy
Trad climber
bored in my office
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
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Thanks Everyone!
I'm surprised about the number of people had negative experiences with the DNC and working a ton of shifts. We were just thinking about it from the standpoint of 40 hours a week, a place to stay in the valley that is legal, but perhaps that is a tad optimistic of reality.
Teaching somewhere is probably the path of least resistance for everything that I want. Both my parents taught, and I really appreciate how much they were around during the summers.
This is a plan that will evolve over the coming weeks....stay tuned.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Jun 17, 2011 - 04:16pm PT
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Dude - GO get the DNC job. If it is terrible(and I know that it would be, if it were me...), you can always do the right thing and give them 2 weeks notice. Or get fed up and walk right off the job in the middle of that burger flip, if that is what the situation dictates... (No offense to the DNC or crappy jobs the world over).
You HAVE savings - you won't die of hunger. Be thrifty; don't be buying a brand new Sprinter or some other expensive rig. Besides, you will be ending up in Camp 4(when you quite the DNC) and other environs, and that won't serve you...(if you know what I mean).
Be thrifty, get the stupid insurance gap taken care of(in your case, it does seem something not to let lapse), and do the RIGHT THING: Give your boss that 2 weeks (or whatever is appropriate) notice and LIVE!
You can always go back to work. And do not listen to those who tell you no. Last October I bought a shitty van and had more than one person tell me it wouldn't get me out of NY state, much less to California and back. They were wrong.
Might it be difficult to get a job that matches the current one in salary? It might. But so the F what? Who REALLY needs a 6 figure job. Especially when they have not already accumulated a lifestyle based on such.
And as for leaving a 6 figure one and "having difficulty adjusting?" Been there, done that. It's a lot easier than one might believe. We waste SO much money when we have it.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Jun 17, 2011 - 04:47pm PT
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Hey RJ - I wasn't referring to you!
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Kupandamingi2
climber
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Jun 17, 2011 - 05:33pm PT
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Life is short (and increasingly so). I too went down the PhD path and, like you, will never recover from the opportunity cost - financial and otherwise. My situation is a bit different, Ive got to kids and I've got a job I really enjoy, but that requires me to live in Kenya/East Africa and my wife is about fed up with developing world life. No doubt we will be considering a move in the next year or so.
I've often contemplated a bold move to the mtns. Boulder, Tahoe and the like. Havent done it yet, as I still have some professional interests that trump mtn time and the kids of course, but I know at some point I will. These are tough decisions. But realize any decision you make is temporary. Im often asked by younger folks about my career path...there is a certain romance to working humanitarian emergencies. Career path, deep commitment to humanitarianism??? Nah, just looking for adventure in various forms.
Climbing and mtns are a gift. Go find them, but dont predetermine the form. You may find a reasonable job with reasonable climbing nearby thats a better fit than climbing paradise and a miserable job. Balance. I haven;t acheived it, but I certainly strive for it. With some supposition, I would suggest that the very fact that you did a PhD suggests that you have an intellectual interest beyond the mean. Mountains feel great, but only as a balance against the intensity of your intellectual pursuits. Go too far one way or the other and your off kilter. Im off kilter now - running to various disasters/drought induced emergencies then home on the weekends in Nairobi with my kids.
Climbing for me has died (its around, but I have no time) and I feel the ramifications of it every day. Then again, if my intellectual/professional pursuits also died...Im pretty damn sure Id feel the same way. Same goes for being a Dad - its part of the puzzle. I doubt Ill ever acheive balance between these 3 passions, I imagine it more as a revolving imbalance, prioritizing one or two for a while then switching it up. thanks for the relatable post. weve all certainly thought about it!
Greg
afterthought - I just came back from northeastern Kenya. The drought is biting hard. Acute malnutrition (wasting) is upwards of 40%, mortality rates among kids under 5 has near tripled and most households I met with are going to bed tonight (after midnight here) hungry. The choices you (and I) make between living and the mtns and a 100k are real and intense for us, but in the scheme of things pretty light. Not meant to disparage how hard these decisions are, but Ive found it helpful sometimes to keep them in perspective
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jun 17, 2011 - 05:55pm PT
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Seek a balance in life. Don't forget the end game: after age 70 or so.
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