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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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May 21, 2011 - 12:20pm PT
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Here, Karmakanix: info on the Direct route. From Lunch Ledge, you have the option---not mentioned by Roper--- of doing his Fat Man Chimney on the left or going right and up to the much cleaner and somewhat harder 5.8 Charlie Brown Chimney (named after Charley "Brown" Artman. I recommend this alternate. Also in Fat Man Chimney you will these days find a bolt or two, apparently placed in the eighties or early nineties. The "friction step" pitch just below the Great Chimney takes off from a very huge pine or fir and would go very inobviously right and up with iffy protection for a move or two. The alternate here is to do the obvious open book more or less straight up from you and left of this "step". This alternate is probably still only 5.7 although it looks harder. When in the Great Chimney first pitch, make sure and feel free to traverse back and forth in there and not get all tunnel-visioned out and force your way straight up---considerably dumber and harder than to follow the weakness of the feature in a less direct manner. At the very top of the climb, there are several ways of exiting. There is a trick way though that involves using the rightmost "gulley" and exiting it off left only part way up. It is nebulous here.
Washington Column-Lunch Ledge pI. 10
II, 5.6. This nondescript climb, the first technical
route done in the Valley, was done in September
1933 by Hervey Voge, Richard Leonard, Jules
Eichorn and Bestor Robinson. Although it was once
the most frequented route in the Valley, its popularity
has waned in recent years owing to the discovery
of more enjoyable routes. Most climbers now regard
the Ledge as simply a belay spot on the Direct Route.
From the vicinity of Camp 9 walk up to the base
of slabs several hundred feet left of the demarcation
line between the Arches and the Column. Ascend
diagonally (class 3) to sloping ledges in the demarcation
line, perhaps 200 feet above the ground. Rope
up and descend class 4 rock about 20 feet, then traverse
upward and right to a broad ledge. Climb straight
up for 60 feet, then work up and right to a forked
tree. About 25 feet higher, step right around a bulge
and wander up step-like ledges to a large pine and a
cairn overlooking an 800-foot dropoff.
Work up class 4 cracks and chimneys for 175 feet
to a belay ledge, then traverse left on a three-footwide
ledge for 25 feet to a vertical crack-the
Reigelhuth Chimney. In reality the "chimney" is a
jamcrack, awkward (5.6) at the bottom and easier
higher. The 90-foot pitch ends on the disappointing
Lunch Ledge. Rappel from here or continue via one
of the following two routes. Hardware: 6 pitons, up
Washington Column-
Direct Route pI. 10, pg. 144
III, 5.7. First ascent in August 1940 by John Dyer,
Robin Hansen and DeWitt Allen. Although not
terribly enjoyable or aesthetic, this route is probably
done by most climbers who stay in the Valley for any
length of time. The route begins from Lunch Ledge;
many parties have gotten lost on the first pitch.
Above Lunch Ledge don't climb the large left-facing
open book (easy at the start), but climb an inconspicuous
crack system 25 feet to the left. This system
soon turns into a decomposed, tricky 5.7 slot-the
notorious Fat Man Chimney. About 140 feet above
Lunch Ledge, traverse down and right to a good belay
ledge by a tree. Next, move up and right over a
difficult friction step to a sandy slope below the
forbidding Great Chimney. A strenuous pitch in this
chimney (5.6) leads to a belay on chockstones.
Another pitch leads to the top of the chimney, where
it is possible to traverse up and left into a narrow,
rotten chimney. A short distance higher pass through
a tunnel which leads into a class 2 forest. Routefinding
becomes complicated beyond here-there are
several routes of similar difficulty. A 5.7 route can be
worked out near the left side of the last 300-foot
wall. Above this, exit onto brush slopes and the
summit. Hardware: 10 pitons, up to 1V2".
An early variation was made to this route in 1934
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
Arkansas, I suppose
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May 21, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
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I've simul-rapped the hell out of some routes, and can state that empirical evidence shows it to be pretty freaking fast.
Way faster than standard wait-til-the-first-guy-is down stuff.
edited for grammar
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Karmakanix
Trad climber
Berkeley CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2011 - 03:38am PT
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Peter: I really appreciate the post of post Lunch Ledge beta. And the chimney advice. FYI, I am good friends with Les, who taught me lead climbing last century in his own humble way. I know of you as the co-inventor of the famous crack jacks that you two used to protect the Hourglass Flake west of El Cap. I have Steve's book, but your post gives me the printout on my phone, which could be very useful. I climb with Steve and Allen at BIW and have been meaning to pick some brains on this one. I am also the one who went sailing in Greece with AS, LW and GB. Thanks for being on my side.
Mucci: Please excuse me if it seems I have accused you falsely. I just know that the Parducci was there when we bivvied on Helper Monkey, and when we rapped, we did not go past to retrieve it. The next time up, we saw that it was gone. I commend and respect you for going back up and removing it. Said partner was the culprit, and Mother Nature was the victim.
As to my climbing abilities, it is no secret that I cannot yard as hard as I used to, and I am not here posting to spout or tout. You are likely a more burly climber than I ever was. And judging from your pictures on your posting, I have surely been climbing much longer than you have been alive. I climb for the joy of it. And I post to both share and learn. Peace.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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May 22, 2011 - 10:14am PT
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I suppose simul rapping is o.k. for experienced climbers out with trusted partners. I still don't see the point. If things are going sideways doing something different while rapping is the last thing one should do. If things are not going south, why the need for the incremental increase in speed? It more than doubles the load on the anchor and adds at least one more way to have a fatal failure.
I say rap however you want. But, we've had a few threads saying simul rapping should be the norm and is no big deal, which is just incorrect and is a disservice for newer climbers getting their mentoring on the intardnet.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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May 22, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
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Karma-
I apologize for my comments directed toward your OP. I thought it odd my name was dropped so many times in a thread entitled sumulrapping. I was a little fired up and should have held my virtual tongue.
That bottle left behind really bothered me, and provided a reason to revisit that great route.
Cheers,
Mucci
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Al_T.Tude
Trad climber
Monterey, CA
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As Karma's partner in crime, I can attest that his OP is intended to shed light on a rarely published, occasionally discussed technique that is in the forefront of his and my quiver. Most all of the issues brought up in the numerous responses reinforce points that he made in his OP.
rgold adds some useful perspective and he and Johnny K. point out that simul-rapping is just as simple as the more popular sequential rapping proceedure.
It appears to me that the posters who have significant experience with the technique give very positive reviews. Those who have chosen to expend effort to post negative comments seem to have little or no experience with it.
As Karma said, it's not for everyone. If you lack experience, or an experienced, simpatico partner, or it just gives you the willies and you wouldn't rap well or enjoy the experience as a result, simply take the extra time to rap sequentially and click on a different thread. That's an excellent way to save time.
Sure, you can die by simul-rapping poorly, just as you can die from climbing poorly. One aspect of climbing that appeals greatly to me is that it often has to be done well to be done at all. In this world in which mediocrity is celebrated, it is not often that we encounter such a primal activity.
This is my personal choice. I never encourage anyone to simul-rap, nor do I encourage them to lead trad or solo. It's very easy to get seriously injured or die while engaging in any of these pursuits.
Simul-rapping is just one of the many climbing practices that I utilize to maximize my potential as a climbing human. Hans Florine's speed climbing book is full of ways to die...or become alive.
Some respond to such texts with fear, others with detached curiosity and some use them as templates for their lives. All responses are allowed. Choose your own and live it.
If a beginning climber reads the OP, they should determine quite quickly that this technique is not for them at this time. However, all knowledge can be misused. None the less, that does not stop us humans from teaching and learning. If you do not believe in this, why are you participating in something called a "forum"?
Karma posted to educate and encourage a forum among those who wish to learn and teach about the technique.
*
From the many dozens of pitches that I have simul-rapped (mostly with Karma) I have learned the following:
AUTOBLOCK
The autoblock (or French Prusik) friction knot is not specifically for simul-rappelling. It is a simple, fast, elegant and extremely effective tool for executing fast, controllable, safe and versatile rappels. I would never rappel in any manner without one in place without a good reason.
It may actually be faster to set up a rap with the autoblock than without as one of the many services that it performs is to maintain slack in the rap line(s) facilitating quick and easy insertion of the line(s) into the rap device. Two decades experience of raising 8 to 15 lbs of rope while simultaneously attempting to insert one or two fat bights of kinked rope into narrow slots is reason enough to use the auto block. That it is so fast to set up (much faster than a standard prusik) and has so many other advantages (including that if you let go of your brake hand due to incapacity for any reason, you don't die) makes it a no brainer for me.
SPEED
Speed is safety. And not just in the high mountains and on big walls. Speed gives you options. It can get you off the wall and down to the Mountain Room Lounge in time for beer call with your mates. It can get you onto level ground before the rain hits or prevent an ugly bivy. It can allow you to do many more pitches in a day (if you're into that sort of thing).
And speed is fun. I don't get paid to climb. I do it for fun. I love visiting thousands of feet of unique places on the earth each climbing day that few get to experience - in both directions. When I backpack, I carry a light pack, travel 30 miles a day through the high Sierra, set a comfortable, minimalist camp for 12 hours and re-enter civilization when my food runs out after 200+ miles of joyful exploration. When I've got a rope and a partner, I climb the 16 pitches of Royal Arches in 7 hours. If the partner is solid at the grade, we simul-climb it in 3 hours. If I'm without rope and partner, I do it in 47 minutes. Each style is different, valid, safe and fun.
Hans Florine's license plate reads,"No Bivys". If you're not into any of this foolishness, that's fine. Rappel sequentially and select a different forum thread.
And yes, simul-rapping is approximately twice as fast as performing the same task sequentially. The math is not difficult. To paraphrase Hans: Both climbers moving at the same time is good. One climber moving while the other is not is bad. Neither climber moving is a cardinal sin. Strive to minimize this time (such as change over at belay stations while multi pitch climbing or rappelling).
SIMUL-RAP ONLY IN EMERGENCIES
This is a bad idea. I've been certified in CPR over 20 times. And I suck at it. Why? Because I only practice it once a year at trainings. If you do not regularly simul-rap, it's the last thing that you want to do when the guacamole hits the fan. Just recently, I broke form with Karma and sequentially rapped just so that I wouldn't forget any subtlety of form or # of autoblock wraps going from the usual single strand 7.8mm to double strands with various diameter ropes. Even rehersing in your head or practicing in the garage is not the same as regular field experience.
EQUALIZING LOAD TO PREVENT ROPE CREEP
This is one of the many things that you can't figure out in your head. You'd think that one would have to be careful to keep the load on both sides fairly equal to prevent yo-yoing your partner. In practice, there is so much friction at the top where the rope changes direction, that you pretty much have to walk up the wall to lower your partner. I usually rap faster than Karma. When I get to the lower station, I clip in and feed the knotted side of the rap set up through the anchor. (And, of course I am "hands free" courtesy of the autoblock.)None of this affects him regardless of how far down the pitch he is. When he's wearing a pack, there's a significant weight differential between us. This has never created any problems.
ANCHOR STRENGTH
If I wasn't comfortable dynamically bouncing 2 people on a rap anchor, I would be very reluctant to trust my life to it solo rapping. If that were the case, I'd be looking for another way down. Rap anchors, whether bolts or slung features, are typically massively robust and redundant. Most of our systems are designed for much greater loads than we ever impart upon them.
Having said that, if I came across a questionable rap anchor and absolutely felt that I could not back it up and had to rap on it, I would most definitely use sequential rap technique.
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Karmakanix
Trad climber
Berkeley CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
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Mucci:
I appreciate the gentleman you really are and hope to run into you when we go back up this fall to sort out that huge chimney. This spring has been the first ever with no Valley Thyme because of persistent inclement weather.
Al:
Thanks for the chime. Looking forward to some Leap with you.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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I've had so many people look at me with incredulous eyes when I tell them I'm comfortable with simul-rapping and will even suggest it when I feel the option is viable.
I was taught by a more experienced partner, and became comfortable with it climbing with that same partner. That same partner has scared my balls off while simul-rapping too. Those times were not fun, and I learned the hard way why simul-rapping can be dangerous. I don't simul-rap with him anymore actually. I don't just simul-rap with anyone actually, and I still find it a useful tool on my belt to be comfortable with.
I still like it when I use it. I usually make it a team consensus kind of thing if it comes up.
And here's the thing...with all the safety and such in line and taken care of, when the situation comes up, it's actually kind of fun!
The one bit that I haven't made a solid decision is...when executing a double rope simul rap (off a bomber anchor of course!) do I use the EDK or the fisherman's?
So far...it depends, but I wonder if it's a 50-50 thing in the community...
2p from the newb, cause that's all I can afford after finally achieving a full set of cams. Woot!
Cheers!
LS
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Al_T.Tude
Trad climber
Monterey, CA
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Lady S,
Sounds like you're making appropriate decisions re. who to simul-rap with. It's not for your first day on the rock with a new partner and probably isn't for most experienced teams - not that they're not good climbers; it's just that it takes a certain "head space" that not everyone posesses to do it safely and enjoyably every time.
And yeah, it is also funner to s-r. Karma pointed out that you have more eyes looking for rap anchors (and only one side to scan as your partner checks out the other). Aside from that it's just cool to rap side by side.
I mainly do it for speed reasons (which for me makes it more fun). If pressed, I think Karma would say that his primary motivation is that it's an inherently more fun experience regardless of the speed.
EDK (AKA Flat Overhand Knot) - I'm a big fan. The loads imposed by the dynamic body weight of 2 rappellers is far below it's strength. The rope will break before the knot slips. The big advantage of EDK is two fold:
1) It's easy and fast to untie after loading. In an emergency this can save a life or at least save you from having to pull out your knife.
2) The knot flips away from the rock decreasing the liklihood of it hanging up in a crack, constriction or inflection point.
As Karma notes, do not use a flat figure 8. Under exteme loads (albeit far beyond that incurred while rappelling), this knot can invert and roll it's way off the end of the rope tails.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Cg8homvoU
Craig Luebben recommends the EDK for forming a cordelette which is designed to take lead falls in his excellent anchors manual. Used in this manner the knot is exposed to ~1/3 of the impact. I've used it thusly for many years on my 20' x 5.5mm Spectra cordelette.
EDK With Dissimilar Diameter Ropes - Lots of climbing myths don't hold up to the rigors of the backyard ropes lab. I've often read and heard that the EDK will not hold in ropes of dissimilar diameter. Karma and I often use it on 7.8mm twin/half rap/tag line tied to a 10.2mm single lead rope. We've never seen the knot creep.
To quantify this I tied an 8.5 to a 10.5 with the EDK, tied off one rope and dropped about 2' on a 1' Spectra sling attached to the other. Using a static sling for part of the system puts a massive load on the knot - way beyond fall factor 2 (watch the DMM video to see Spectra slings break http://www.dmmclimbing.com/news.asp?nid=293&ngroup=1);.
I measured the standard 12" tail lengths and then hit the knot with 3, Fall Factor Ginormous loads and then re-measured the tail lengths. Lather, rinse, repeat 5X. After the initial tightening of the knot, the tails lost ~ 2 mm of length per set of 3 impacts. At this rate, it would require 440 falls of massively greater force than the maximum factor 2 fall that lead climbers could theoretically impart on their anchor to go through the 12" tails. In other words, dissimilar diameter ropes tied with the EDK don't slip at all when simul or any other kind of rappelling.
Congrats on your cams aquisition, LS. Climb On!
Karma - Look forward to digging through the snow to find our prunewood stash at The Leap on the 18th!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Since Al_T raised the issue of the EDK with different diameter ropes, it seems relevant to (re?)post the following material:
In principle, the EDK, tied properly, ought to be less likely to roll in two ropes of different diameter. The meaning of "tied properly" is illustrated in the following photo:
Personally, when rapping with two 8.5's, I do not enjoy standing at the anchor watching that bottom bight stretch open (the first step to rolling). So I usually add a back-up overhand as depicted below:
Note that there is a right and wrong strand to use for the backup, regardless of whether or not the two strands are of different diameter. The way to decide is to grasp the two rope strands and pull them apart as they would be when loaded for rappelling. The bight that these opposing strands try to enlarge identifies the strand that should be used for the backup knot.
Since the EDK seems to be more prone to rolling when ropes are wet, even those who eschew such back-ups on dry ropes might find them appropriate if their ropes are soaked.
Please note that the strands in the EDK are too short, having been tied this way so as to fit in the photo frame. The proper length for EDK strands is the length of your forearm.
By the way, when it comes to testing, we are too often presented with slow-pull tests for climbing situations in which the typical load is a shock load. But sometimes, slow-pull tests might be more relevant, and rappelling is, I suspect, one of them. The question is less about whether the EDK will stand up to a big shock load and more about how it will behave under a more moderate load for a long duration.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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We spent part of January climbing in Red Rocks this year. It was so cold that we probably could have ice climbed, had we been so inclined. Inclined we were not, so we spent a lot of time climbing in the Solar Slab area.
We noticed that nearly all of the parties that we saw on the Solar Slab route a. included >2 people, b. involved at least 2 of the party members simul rappeling, and c. involved someone doing some sort of rope rescue at some point.
I don't think I've simul rapped since my first time down the Royal Arches raps when we did it as a party of 4 rescue style (2-people on one device)...oh, yes, we really did. It was pretty wild when the first party of two down the lines went past the anchor.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Thank you Rgold, and yes this is a small bit of a repost, but hey, I like to see pretty pictures of knots (especially life saving ones!) a lot, over and over again in fact!
And actually, that very same picture ended up entirely applicable to a recent situation. A partner and I were doing a double rope rap and we had brought a skinny rope along for the rap. I asked him how HE dealt with the rope diameter difference with the EDK when setting up the rap. What can I say, I was taking the opportunity to see the pretty internet pictures come alive. He turned to me and stated that he 'almost always' uses a double fishermans and tries not to rap off a EDK whenever he can arrange it. So much for seeing internet pics come to life...
Heh, then I suggested simul-rapping and he backed out of that too.
Is it something in my eyes that scares them? heh. Oh well...
Cheers
LS
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Al_T.Tude
Trad climber
Monterey, CA
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rgold - Thanks for adding to the discussion.
Using the larger diameter strand to block the EDK from rolling - I don't know which way the EDK was set up in my lab or field testing, but I will do it your way from now on as it doesn't take any extra time.
I've seen a second EDK added behind the first for the squeamish. Your second photo didn't translate to my computer, but your accompanying text makes it clear that you're tying an overhand in only one strand of the tail. I don't have EDK experience in the wet, so maybe it's worth trying this backup if I get caught out.
We slow load the knot every time we rap. After losing close to an inch from the initial knot tightening, the tails were still at 11" following 11 rap pitches down The Arches.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Heh...
that clip at 1:05-1:10ish...Haha!
Somehow, I suspect that in situations of tandem rappelling, I'd end up on 'Top' most of the time...
Hee hee
LS
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Al_T.Tude
Trad climber
Monterey, CA
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You go, Lady S. I'm a big fan of dominant women >;~O
bbreeder - I'm guessing that tandem rapping means 2 rappellers clipped into one rap device with both rope strands threaded through it rescue style. We enjoy controlling our own raps independently, but your suggestion is worth trying out. We enjoy experimenting with various techniques even if we don't make them a part of our standard bag of tricks.
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