Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Nate D
climber
San Francisco
|
|
One of the major shortcomings of gyms is that they don't train/build the calves for stance drilling. (Where are the indoor slabs?) Anyone have any good training techniques?
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
|
|
"...Better to hang the drill from the last bolt on a fifi and a 25 foot or so cord. Hand of hand it up, when you need it. ..."
A fifi is a pretty dicey way to leave your drill hanging from the last pro. As you climb above and the rope moves things around, well your drill will probably get launched. I made up a good hook for this use by bending a 12" welding rod 180 deg. around a 1" bar, just short of it's middle, then made an eye at the longer end to tie the drill to. Girth hitch a runner at the top of the hook (in the bend) and attach your light haul cord there. This is a nice deep hook which will not come off except when you pull it up. Also, I like the thin haul line to come up through a 'biner on my harness and then then all the way back down to the belayer, so if I have pulled the drill partway up and need a moment to regroup on my stance, I can let go of the cord and the belayer can hold it there.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
Some of the on-lead bolts drilled at Suicide Rock, over 30 years ago, have to be seen (climbed) to be believed. Sacking it up to go for those tough placements is considerable adventure. That's what 70s climbing on Middle Cath. was all about. Routes like Stoner's Highway and Black Primo were all about trying to get those bolts in without taking an epic whistler. Half the time you didn't even know if you were on route. You prayed that when you went for the big run out that "big knob" was indeed good enough. When it wasn't (at least half the time), things got exciting very quickly. The most horrendous on lead bolts I have ever seen were on a route called "Greasy but Groovy" on Royal Arches. Rock Accomazzo was the best I ever saw at this work.
JL
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
|
|
Ouch!,
Good times. There's no choss that a little Old E can't fix.
|
|
looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
|
|
As many have pointed out, it is the end result that is important (solid bolts). Depending on the route, the location, etc., you may decide to rap, lead, hook, power or hand drill the suckers.
Hand drilling on the lead is a lot of work and often dictates that fewer (rather than more) bolts get placed. Power drilling in wilderness areas or most National Parks is not permitted. Rapping on longer climbs isn't often an alternative either.
Nowdays, people seem to place 3/8 inch bolts, no matter if drilled on the lead by hand or not.
|
|
Nate D
climber
San Francisco
|
|
Munge,
You belong in Hawaii doing FAs on this stuff:
Actually, does anyone climb these cliffs?
Kris,
Did the Gold Standard possibly go ground-up?
More stories please...
|
|
Greg Barnes
climber
|
|
All I can say is that I'm glad we have SDS bits these days - they pretty much never break off in the hole. I can't even count the number of holes with broken drill bits that I've seen next to old bolts, usually from horrendous stances!
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
|
|
Nate - The Gold Standard was done ground up, drilling from hooks. Actually, I made a special hook for the job, milled out of t6 aluminum. It was a triangular affair with two feet, and a beak at 90 degrees so it would just sit on a thin edge. A slot in the base accepted a thin stopper - to clip the thing.
Just for the record, I really enjoy the whole process of ground-up fa's, so on the rare occasion you come across one of my routes you can assume it was done in that manner.
BTW, I just want to mention that Herb Laeger is a real master of "stancing." And he's still at it with a vengeance at 60+!
Edit: The Gold Standard has hand drilled 5/16 bolts. They are well placed and should be fine for many years to come.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
I worked in Maui for a winter filming and recording Humpbacks and always looked at the cliffs on the island thinking ice climbing gear was in order and some old fashion warthog screws.
|
|
bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
|
|
It was July 1978 in the Meadows. There were a bunch of routes on the left side of PennyRoyal Arches but not much on the right side. I convinced Tom Sisson to go up there with me and do a route.
The first pitch was a 5.6 crack, above that the face steepened and got blanker. Tom went up and put in the first bolt of the second pitch and then tried to climb higher to get in bolt #2. Next thing I know, he is pitching over backwards and sliding back to the belay. Blood everywhere but, Tom is a tough dude and the injury looks superficial.
I take over the lead and go up and get bolt #2 in. Next there is about 25-30 feet of climbing up to a small roof which turns out to be 5.10 and is the crux of the climb. There is a golf ball-sized knob at the lip of the roof but, since I am looking at a 50+ fall and then having to reclimb the crux, if I survive, I am desperate to get something in. No chance to drill so I try for about 10 minutes to bash a short lost arrow into a seam at the base of the roof.
No go so I have to commit to the mantel and I suck at mantels. The move is probably only 5.8/5.9 and I somehow make it. Standing on the knob I place bolt #3 and things seem to be looking brighter.
I run it out 25-30 feet to a couple of nickel sized knobs and decide its time to put in a belay. As I start drilling the first belay bolt my calves start to scream from being on lead for so long and drilling the bolts. My feet are really beginning to ache and I am looking at a long ride and a launch over the roof if I loose it and I am starting to get impatient, scared and just plain disgusted all at the same time.
I finally get the hole deep enough for a bolt and decide to give the drill one more tap just to be sure. I hear this "klunk" sound and then I quickly realize what has happened. The drill bit has broken and even worse, it is flush with the hole so I can't even tie it off for pro.
Now, I have to get out the drift pin, knock out the old bit and put a new one in. I considered just jumping but, I guess my preservation instinct was just too great that day. Needless to say, I got the new bit in, drilled both holes and Tom recovered to drill the bolts on pitch #3.
I named the route "Mypoia" because Higgins had "The Vision" on the left side. Somehow, the route ended up in the Tuolumne guide as "UFR".
Bruce
|
|
aldude
climber
Monument Manor
|
|
Here is another stance twister : In the early eighties in Tuolumne style was everything. Bolting on stance was the M.O. for all new face routes (except B&Y). Bachar had the first Bosch I had ever seen and was experimenting with powerstancing. Acknowledging the difference between a stanced route on which the bolts were never weighted and the common practice of taking turns drilling and then lowering, John suggested we try a route over near East Cottage Dome and attempt the former. Dave Sessions and I belayed as John would climb up with the Bosch clipped to a sling around his shoulder,set up,drill one handed then down climb. On the third and last bolt he continued to the top only to find a 2 bolt anchor near the topout - a top rope anchor we surmised. Dave and I followed on this knobfest confiming the 11.c grade and we christened the route One Armed Bandit. Next day Roland walks up to us in the TM lot and hands John the bolts and hangers saying he chopped em because a) He had already TRed the route and b) It was too short (60ft). We stared at each other in disbelief - we never knew it was a TR because we started from the ground. This was the beginning of the Bolt Wars and the cliff in question is now called the Peanut Gallery. There are routes on either side of OAB sporting 6 bolts - except Dan McDevitt ,the author of these routes, has inexplicably stripped the hangers! Strange Days?!?"+
|
|
E.C. Joe
climber
Lafayette
|
|
Dingus, I agree!
 ec
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
I think you can pretty much generalize that clipping bolts inside or out isn't quite the same calf workout associated with placing gear.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
|
|
Stories. I recall one time climbing with Laeger up at Courtright. I was actually a replacement on this project, the first 4 bolts or so were in and his partner lost interest. Anyway we get there and Herb says to me "Go ahead and climb what we did already and go for the next bolt. The hooking is good, so just pull up the drill from the ground."
So the climbing past the first few bolts was about .12a. I was psyched, and got well above the last bolt and on a hook which, to me, was dicey. There I am, afraid to breathe, let alone move, and i have to pull the drill, hammer, bolts and all up from the ground. I got the stuff up there and drilled about 1/2 inch hole before the hook came off. I remember hanging there, holding onto the drill which was sticking out of the hole with a bent bit, and Herb was yelling at me something about busting his bosch, and the next thing I knew I was falling with that drill at arms length. We finished the route next day, it's called "Face of a Blue Eyed Dog."
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
I had visited Smith Rocks for a period of about 6 weeks back in the late eighties with Kurt Smith. Kurt and I coming from the valley (Kurt being Bachar's protoge') were determined to show those rap bolting pussies at Smith, how you are supposed to put UP routes. Our style was kind of funny to me now (I have since put routes in on rappel, sorry to let you down aldude) but here is how it went. One of us would would climb to where a bolt was needed (because it was to steep to stance we used hooks) drill, lower then pull the rope. Then the next guy would lead up clip, find the next needed bolt location, hook, drill, then lower out and pull the rope. This went on until we were finished the pitch. The locals would give us much grief about our style and were confident that our routes were to be garbage and never to see a repeat. Eventually a boulder based climber Colin Lantz was kind to us and lent us his Boshe for one of the routes. I am told 20 years later that a couple of the routes are clasics and regularly done.
Hooking and drilling on lead, in the land of rappel!
|
|
G_Gnome
Trad climber
Ca
|
|
My least favorite is those slopey little smedges at JT where the rock is all grainy and there isn't a solid hand hold anywhere. Standing there long enough to get even a quarter inch bolt in was hell on the mind as much as the calves. EBGBs was particularly perverse in this way. And Loose Lady wasn't called Loose for nothing.
|
|
Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
|
|
I was always curious if "Loose Lady," required "aggressive cleaning?"
|
|
Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
|
|
Or just "accidental cleaning".
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
The West
|
|
Are we at the point where you only drill on lead when you 'have to?'
Interesting.
Disclaimer, I've gone both ways. (Given a third choice, I go -roto.)
Bolting on lead though, whatever you carry or pull up, is a discipline of it's own. An aid climbing subgroup, unless you get a really good stance. Always full of adventure.
A few Bolting on lead tales.
Zonerland, AZ, on a first ascent attempt a leader pops a hook, while getting ready to drill, decks, rolls on the ground into a bush, that perforates his cheek. Thus the route name 'Scarface.'
Later, in the Land of nod (over the hill from zonerland)I was drilling via a solo belay setup, when a leeper pointy hook at my waist ripped through a pocket causing me to fall aproximatley one foot, however as I fell I grabbed an aider on another hook and jammed the little finger of my left hand into the sling. causing me to flip around and get a cmpd fracture, complete with floating bone fragments in said finger.
Surgery, two months with two pins and a cast, left me with a permentently hooked finger, but I was able to finally lead the route around a year after the accident. The acident inspired the name; 'Distal digit Dysfunction.' Alliterative, if anatomically inaccurate.
Before that (same general area),two friends of mine, Ironfist and Ziegfried, put up a route (notable as the first use of camoflaged [painted] hangers in Az) along a major trail ground up on hooks. A group of boy scouts passed on the trail, and the adult leader was heard to say. "If that guy's hooks pull, he's a goner."
The name of that route refers to the 'leave no trace™' look of the finished climb and the ascentionists previous employment, and not the climb itself; "Agent 44.'
|
|
G_Gnome
Trad climber
Ca
|
|
ApocolypseNow, pretty much every route I have ever put up has needed SOME cleaning. Loose Lady needed a wee bit more than some others. I think of the older routes I helped put up, An Eye for an Eye and A Route for a Route probably needed the least cleaning.
Having said that, when Kris and I put up Hang Em High on Future Games, I don't remember needing to clean at all. But then Kris bolted the top part so I may be wrong.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!