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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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The funny part in all this is Jim T-F is dead serious and really would go up on the damn thing and do it again. F#ck, I'll have think long and hard about that one!!! Yikes, I do need a little incentive to really get in shape this year (unlike last year when I didn't) but I was just thinking a big wall in the Valley. Crikey, is right! Just the thought of getting back on it is making small parts of me get even smaller.
It would also be interesting to know all these years later who the third "mystery party" was from STL or wherever. And, Jim Thurmond (too damn many Jim T's), did you actually jam that OW the times you did it? If you did, man, that's super, super burly and my hats off to you. And when was the last time it was climbed. Funny such a high quality affair would have dropped off all the hardmen's radar in recent years! Also, I actually like "Casual Horrors" as a name, but I really think you'd go up there with a better mindset thinking of it as "Leapfrog" and just act like one.
Hell, the games afoot! Rich, you guys should run down there and jump on it, while you're at it scout out the current apres' climb resturaunt/bar scene nearby, and post up some shots of it for us. I'll throw $50 in on that bounty and triple-dog-dare you as well. Eric, start organizing the next Rendezvous now so the folks out West can clear their schedules - maybe a week or two earlier so the weather is better. Who knows, maybe Adam would like another shot at glory? We could hold a special one-day/one-climb comp and candlelight vigil out at Fountain Bluff during it. Should be quite a purse by then...
[Edit: Jim Thurmond, email Chris Mac at SuperTopo and he'll fix your registration so you can post up directly...]
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tangen_foster
Trad climber
Hudson, Wisconsin
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re. Metamorphosis, and about being dead serious: Joe had come along while Cindy was belaying me from the intermediate hanging belay. He climbed up beneath and to the side and tied his rope into the slack of our line that hung down. My fall shredded Cindy's hands and not for Joe's knot jamming in the anchor biner, I would have been seriously dead. As it was, I ended up hanging from my swiss seat below Joe and not far a nasty ledge of rocks. I don't even think I had to be lowered, but was able to untie from an easy stance right there. We all lived to climb another day. But for Cindy, her days only lasted another couple months or so, as she died from a fall just across the road when rock fall knocked her off of her third class downclimb after leading Werksup. I can't begin to describe here the impact that Cindy's fall has had on me, and many others who knew and loved her. She was a student at CU at the time, but learned to climb while a student at SIU. Her picture, buildering barefoot, graces Alan Baggs 50 Short Climbs in the Midwest. There was indeed a great disturbance in the force on that sad day in Eldorado. She is always remembered and forever missed.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Yes, losing Cindy was a tragedy that took an innocent piece of all of us along with her. She was among the bravest, fun, and kind persons I have known and was a solid climber in her own right. Somewhere along the way everytime I think of Carbondale and Giant City I see her smiling face and hear her laugh. She was much loved and is still missed by all...
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nickh
climber
St. Louis, MO
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2006 - 02:41pm PT
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So-Ill's Astroman Huh? Sounds pretty interesting!!! I want to thank everybody here for all the info, I wasn't really expecting a response like this. I'm a bit intimidated hearing Eric, both Jim's and healyje's take on the route, but I'm also very intrigued. I'll do my best to check it out this spring.
In fact Sunday is supposed to be warm (44) and clear. I may go recon it, since most partners will gravitate to the couch and fingerfood instead of crags (Go Seahawks!). If I do I'll take a camera so we can get some photo's of the line on this thread.
Darnell- took a second to figure out who you were. I climbed Rainier with Ryan, and Corbett. Also I ran into you at site 10 in Camp 4 in 2004. You were mentioned that you moved to Chicago. Good thing too, Ford is kind of a dirty word around STL these days.
How about some of your FA's in SoIll, any really good ones. I remember you tellin' us about pouring gasoline down cracks to burn out the poison ivy choking them. Pretty Funny. Not exactly LNT, but I didn't get the impression this was ecologically pristine ground either.
NickH
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Posted for Eric Ulner:
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Hey Joe,
This is a photo that Jim took of me circa 1986, on the beginning of the placing the bolt ladder (on lead) on the off-width on Leap Frog. As you can see Joe, we too got on the route late in the day. The lack of light was a factor for us as well. Jim had a headlamp. I didn't.
A week later, Jim and I returned and freed the route. And yes, I definitely used lie-back technique all the way up the off-width. Actually much of the off-width is not a standard "splitter". It's a bit offset, in that there's a slight bit of "dihedralness" to the crack. It can be laid back without causing too much of a barn door effect.
If Jim T.F. was so casual about risking huge whippers, I have no doubt that he ran the offwidth out its entire length. He would've been looking at a big one, probably 100+ feet. Maybe the 15-foot high jungle of weeds at the base of the route gave a pad like appearance...
My hat is off to you Jim T.F. for that one.
I've got photos of our free ascent that second week, as Alan Carrier returned with us to rap off the top and shoot us. Give me some time to scan a couple of them.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Eric,
Thanks for that info and the pic - that offset in the crack pretty much explains it all. I think Jim and I have both been wondering why we couldn't remember more about climbing the crack itself. If it had been a classic splitter it would seem to me both of us would have had some pretty brutally clear memories of getting up it, but what's pictured would have just have been a business as usual romp for both of us and it was.
With regard to the grass looking like a pad at the base, I don't think anything in the view below him would have made any difference to Jim. I do very much remember we felt confident that the way I had it rigged out at the lip made it unlikely that we would hit anything in a fall. Once that criteria was met neither of us would have been overwhelmingly concerned about the length of the fall; in fact we were actually more afraid of the harshness of shorter falls, but that is a luxury of overhangs and roofs.
So mystery solved. That picture does kind of encourage me to think about the possibility of getting back on it with Jim. Had it actually been a splitter I'd have to think a lot harder about the proposition. So, now the only question is, since Ma Hale's is closed, where the hell are we going to eat down that way? Someone down there has to still be doing a good local, homestyle meal or catfish fry. Do some scouting around for us while you're down there guys...
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Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
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Nick, nice thread, and I do remember you.
As far as the gas thing, I seem to remember lot's of beer's being consumed that night at site #10
I have burned PI at the base of a wall, but never on it. Although I have burned out wasp nest's in cracks.
After being stung on lead multiple times when I climbed into a nest,(good times) I kind of got this thing about not wanting to relive that experience.
JTF that whipper you took on metamorphasis is truely amazing!!
So sorry to hear about Cindy later that year.
If it's not to painfull, I would like to see a photo of her posted here.
I would love to do leapfrog, but as I am currantly only climbing valley 5.9, I need to train. Hmm I a suposed to be getting two giant valley cams, looks like they would work in that offwidth for pro.
Looks like a # 5 or 6 cam would work also.
We should all try and get together this spring, Joe your the one that has to come 2,000 miles. I am flexable, pick a weekend, and I will rally the troops.
Nick call me and we will go check it out. 312-421-4982
Rich
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Rich,
I'll defer to Jim on a photo of Cindy and also I unfortunately don't have one other than in a SoIll article I wrote for Climbing magazine years ago.
Jim's climbing that day in Eldo was the single most impressive display of boldness and rote, calm fearlessness I've ever witnessed in all my years of climbing. Not only that, but I've seen him do more or less the same thing a hundred other times and actually get away with it...
Don't remember the details of the crack, maybe Eric could tell you what size cam woud be required. If you simply moved on the thing you'd only need a couple.
And last, unfortunately I won't be able to make it back out that way until the fall so roll some pixels for us if you head down there to take a look at it. Besides before then I'm not going to be in any shape to tackle that sucker anyway.
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Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
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Posted for Jim Thurmond-------------
I only got in the OW the first time even though I had just watched Eric lay it back. I'm almost 6' 3" and 200lbs I can usaully swell up like a Puffer fish inside of most OW's but not that one; small edge's tend to snap crackle and pop when I use them. Laying it back is the way to go you just dont get the comfort of the exposure dissappearing because your face is wearing the OW like a horse with blinders. After Eric did it we came right back either the next day or soon there after and he belayed me so I too could experience the Horror .Another time I had forgotten about until skimming my photo's on the subject, Alan Carrier rappeled in to take photo's. Dumb Ass me left my shoes at home. Not to bum everyone out,[Alan had already fixed lines] I told them I was climbing it "ancient school" barefoot style so the picture's would be cool.The soft moss felt great under my bloody stumps that used to be feet. All but a few pictures washed from the tough lighting conditions .....classic huh................
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jim,
Barefoot! Oh, the horrors, and not casual ones either!!! Man, now that is burly old school, I love it. I used to do Ciy Limits with my left foot bare for the toe hook. Only in SoIll, the Czech Republic, and East Germany can you see antics like these. Can't wait to see the photos. Leapfrog definitely needs to be ressucitated back into the popular culture down there. We'll have to try to get back there sometime this year and we can all go out and make it a multiple-anniversery ('76 & '86) of it - after all it is 2006, what better year to give it a go again.
P.S. Eric, I think both of us had legitimate FA experiences on it, and given there are two very real stories worth hearing, if you put it back in the guide (and I hope you do) you should list it as "Leapfrog / Casual Horrors" and we'll have to collaborate on a new write up for it.
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tangen_foster
Trad climber
Hudson, Wisconsin
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Rich,
Thanks for your condolences and interest in seeing a post of Cindy's picture. Pain is not the definitive emotion in this context. It is regret that has plagued me over the years. As as we bandy about tales of long runouts and falls, it remains obvious to me that if I had cratered on Metamorophis, Cindy wouldn't have been climbing unroped in Eldorado two months later. The surviors' plight is too often a sense of invincibility. I remember an article in Ascent about a death in Patagonia around the same time as Cindy's. The author wrote about how he and his fallen friend had escaped one epic after another, always unscathed, and thus coming to believe that this was their fate, to be perpetually lucky, or a best an exadgerated sense of competence. But near misses do not bode competence. but recklessness.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jim,
We've never talked about this and this isn't the place - but I have no regret around not losing you as well. Two different worlds, two different lives, two different paths - I'm lucky to have known Cindy as well as I did, and am also glad for the chance to get to know you even better as we grow older. We have many more climbs to go yet my friend...
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couchmaster
climber
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Apr 11, 2016 - 04:23pm PT
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10 year Southern Ill. bump
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 11, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
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Thanks Couch, quite timely in an odd way...
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Apr 11, 2016 - 06:05pm PT
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Glad to see this one, that pre-dates my ST entry, but is long after my SoILL expedition.
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Friend
climber
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Apr 11, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
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Great reading, great thread guys.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 11, 2016 - 11:20pm PT
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Glad to see this one, that pre-dates my ST entry, but is long after my SoILL expedition.
????
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Apr 12, 2016 - 06:54am PT
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We drove from Chicago once when the southern tip of Illinois was the only place with climbing we knew of that showed clear of cloud in satellite pictures. I think we were using Alan Bagg's 50 Short Climbs in the Midwest shortly after it came out in 1978. We tramped into the woods and along a cliff, climbed a good route, got rained on and drove home. Although at the time we had a pretty good guess about which cliff and climb, now I cannot say. Otherwise, it was a memorable trip. It would have to have been before 1979 which is when I moved to Seattle.
My ST entry was 2009 versus this thread from 2006.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 12, 2016 - 11:43am PT
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Ah, thanks - maybe Giant City or Jackson Falls? I left in '78 and have only been back a couple of times. It's on the radar for another visit soon.
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AZ-OW
Trad climber
Granite Mountain Wilderness
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Apr 12, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
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Fountain Bluff! So many fond memories and friendships were formed in this stand-alone crucible. Joe R and I would affectionately refer to the style of climbing here as Mississippi Valley Alpine. Jim Thurmond is a great partner and one hell of a mentor. I remember cool crisp mornings with the mist rolling across the flats while grey overcast clouds hung low enough I thought we might be able to touch them if we topped out. I remember clamoring through vines, bushes, briars, and ivy in hopes of gaining access to an untouched section of rock. I remember cleaning slings girth-hitched to the aforementioned vines and placing stacked cams in damp sugary sandstone. Often the gear sufficed as a mere form of mental duct-tape allowing me to push myself just far enough to find the next stance. Hauling a webber grill and charcoal up to a ledge to eat stakes and spend the best night on a wall I can remember. I could go on at length about this place. There is a special energy here. I don’t know if it pours out of the spring in the bluff, if it was left behind by the people that used to inhabit this place long ago, or from the sense curiosity and adventure more contemporary and temporary travelers brought with them. I believe it may be a combination all of the above. To those of you who blazed a trail in the beginning, you helped another generation find their own path. For that I am truly grateful. Thanks for bumping this thread.
Here is a Video Joe R put together:
https://vimeo.com/80757485
The Greatest 5.8 in Town -- Rock Climbing at Fountain Bluff, IL from Joe Reidhead on Vimeo.
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