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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Jan 27, 2006 - 06:47am PT
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Thomas, I am not sure why you would expect the "pilot" to lower the landing gear. :)
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Calif
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Jan 27, 2006 - 11:16am PT
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The whole 911 thing reminds me of the burning of the Reichstag(sp?) in Nazi Germany. In 1938, the Reichstag was burned by elements of Hitler's government and blamed on dissidents & jews. They then used the incident to pass legislation allowing the imposition of Martial Law and other restrictive ordinances in the name of protecting state security.
Sound familiar?
Levy
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macgyver
Social climber
Oregon, but now in Europe
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Jan 27, 2006 - 11:40am PT
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What I dont understand is his justification for the missing planes. Where does he hypothesize that they went? Do you fly them over the ocean, shoot them down and let them sink. How do you guarantee no wreckage?
The other item that I emotionally respond too is the statement that the phone calls were faked. I like the apparent heroics of the crashed plane in Pennsylvannia. Anyone actually know how hard it is to call from a plane? (I remember reading that the FAA was going consider allowing cell phones on air flights...how would this work if he is saying it is impossible?)
Makes you wonder...the pentagon thing totally messes with my brain.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jan 27, 2006 - 11:47am PT
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I have a lot of liberal friends and we willing agree to disagree about policy issues and obviously differ on our opinion about the integrity of the current administration. But...
Anyone who believes this conspiracy theory sh#t is a f*#king moron! A plane didn't crash into the Pentagon? It was a missle??!! Are you f*#king serious?!
Wow. Those of you who are in this boat can sip your Koolaid and leave me the f*#k alone. I like debating with reasonable, rational people about our differences but any of you kooks who believe this sh#t are so far gone that there is no grounds for us to discourse. We're on completely different planets.
Ed
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Jan 27, 2006 - 03:40pm PT
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I'm as liberal/left of center as just about anyone, but I wasted an hour of my life on that video. At least it wasn't two hours long.
My surfing buddies, whom I was supposed to meet @ Sandy Hook NJ that morning, watched the first plane come in right over top of the line-up and head straight for the south tower.
I have a tough time even thinking about that day.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jan 27, 2006 - 05:42pm PT
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hey ed-
for the record, the only 9/11 conspiracy theory i buy at all is that some of the neocons in the bush aministration may have had an idea that there would be an attack of some sort, and they avoided a heightened stance of any kind because they knew they could engage their middle east agenda if we had an attack here at home. by the way, yes, that would be treason.
what i really posted to say, however, is that if you are truly disagreeing w/ liberals on the integrity of the bush administration (not to mention delay and the rest of the republican hoard in congress), you are indeed on another planet.
valerie plame?
abramoff?
enron?
voting irregularities in key states (blacks in florida, et.al.)?
haliburton?
WMDs?
giving george "slam dunk" tennet a medal?
the medicare prescription drug program?
gitmo/ abu grahib?
CIA torture flights to eastern europe?
spying on americans w/o FISA warrants?
i could type that list for another hour! remember when it was just blow jobs and real estste deals? those were the days... we ought to be united and embarrassed as a country, lord knows the rest of the world sees right through all this schit, but so many americans will buy whatever faux news is selling, are you one of them??? it's on tv, and they call it news, so why should you ever question what they tell you?
(pretty funny how bush and faux both were unknown and unpopular before 9/11 and the iraq war made them hit the big time... hmmm...?)
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Gabe
climber
San Clemente, CA
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Jan 27, 2006 - 05:54pm PT
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Surfing in NJ Gunkie!? Now that has to be the REAL unbelievable story in this thread.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jan 27, 2006 - 05:57pm PT
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that's nothin, they surf in michigan, now that's a hardman in my book, not to mention the cold power you can find on the pacific NW coast. i'll take board shorts and sunscreen, thanks very much.
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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Jan 27, 2006 - 05:59pm PT
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One thing I am confident of, that plane over Pennsylvania was shot down. And now we have a TV movie about the event.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jan 27, 2006 - 06:17pm PT
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Matt, as I indicate above, all of those issues you listed are open for discussion. I think you're twisted and wrong, but at least we could have a conversation about our different points of view.
But if you believe the utter BS in that video (and you already indicated you don't) then we have crossed the line where you are so far gone from reality that I'm not willing to discuss it. You may not be buying into it, and most people (liberal, conservative, or otherwise) aren't buying into it, but there are a hand full of Art Bell whackos out there just spewing nonsense about one of the most profound events to ever happen in the history of our nation. These are the same kind of jerkoffs that could give you a plausible explanation for why the holocaust never happened. Mental midgets, they are...
Ed
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Jan 27, 2006 - 06:31pm PT
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I think its important to ask the questions or else some day the kind of conspiracy alleged WILL be doable. The planes were going about as fast as possible when they struck. "Normal" plane crashes typically involve skilled pilots trying to land as safely as possible, not jackasses nosediving into the ground screaming or pulling hard turns to get a good line on the Pentagon. Did it ever occur to the producers of the video that air traffic controllers thought it was a military plane because commercial jets don't typically pull manuevers like that? I'm sure the passengers were pasted into their seats. They quote people as saying it "sounded like a missile." How many civilian Americans have ever actually heard a missile?
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jan 27, 2006 - 08:07pm PT
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ed-
about three of those things are open to any debate at all, and i never even watched the video. too bad baba is off lounging in hawaii, or i've no doubt he'd take the time to stick it to you over each of those items in great detail (i value my time more than that).
here's one thing we can all agree on:
we all deserve the government we end up with
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Jan 28, 2006 - 12:00am PT
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Gabe,
Hurricane swell [6-8, 12 sec, S], off-shore winds, 80 degree water, 80 degree air that day.
I wish I was in California late December-early January.
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Gabe
climber
San Clemente, CA
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Jan 28, 2006 - 12:18am PT
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Nice Gunkie, I heard there were core surfers on the east coast. Get'Em! September 11th was a day everybody remembers. I was driving up the 55 to work, an FAA repair facility, when Howard Stern was broadcasting the fall of the first tower. It was hard to work on planes that day. I left work early and took a few days off, obviously shaken. Bad day.....Bad day either way. Gabe
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woodcraft
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Jan 28, 2006 - 11:40pm PT
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Lets don't forget building #7-- that 49 story skyscraper that just happened to collapse at free-fall speed at 5:00 on 9-11. No airplanes, no raging inferno (a few small flames), Maybe it was just so sad that it's pals went down... Check out the several videos- why is this question not answered? Maybe because the answer is just too uncomfortable to contemplate.
Also, did you know that G.W. Bush has a brother besides Jeb? Marvin. Marvin was on the board of directors of the security company for the World Trade Center complex up until the day of the collapse. Check it out.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jan 29, 2006 - 12:09am PT
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A question is not the same thing as an answer.
Until someone, anyone, can tell me who is to blame for the Sept. 11, '01 attacks (or whatever you want to call it), anybody with any brains is going to have to believe the "Official Explaination".
If you think someone besides Muhammed Atta and his Merry Men is to blame, NAME some NAMES!
And get your stories straight. It can only have happened one way, yet I have heard at least 10 different asinine theories from people who can only agree on one thing; their irrational, knee-jerk, pathological hatred of President Bush.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Jan 29, 2006 - 07:58am PT
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And don't forget. It was election day - the day Mayor Giuliani's replacement was to be elected. Election "cancelled" mid-day. Can anybody explain that?
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Jan 29, 2006 - 02:16pm PT
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The liberal establishment was plotting to keep him in power Trad!! Its plain as day!
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jan 30, 2006 - 07:20pm PT
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Until someone, anyone, can tell me who is to blame for the Sept. 11, '01 attacks (or whatever you want to call it), anybody with any brains is going to have to believe the "Official Explaination".
If you think someone besides Muhammed Atta and his Merry Men is to blame, NAME some NAMES!
so unless i can tell you exactly what did or did not happen and exactly who, by name, was involved, i cannot question any official story of any event, ever?
that's more ridiculous than any conspiracy theory i ever heard.
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