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Jody
Mountain climber
San Luis Obispo County, CA
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Jan 28, 2003 - 04:08pm PT
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Furthermore, in case you are wondering...I lived in National Parks as I was growing up and have been going into the Sierra Widerness for 33 years(since I was 5). I love the mountains and nature as much or more as anybody. My favorite thing to do is get into the backcountry and photograph it. Do you think I would purposely TRY to ruin that beauty? Not hardly! I am just not convinced that we should make radical and horribly expensive lifestyle changes based on unproven scientific theories. I could change my mind in the future, who knows?
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FREEclimber
Social climber
SF
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Jan 28, 2003 - 05:25pm PT
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"Furthermore, in case you are wondering..."
i really wasn't wondering, mr. jody.
and as far as gallup polls and quotes as old as i am go, so long as you have a place to hang your hat, i guess you get to believe whatever the hell you like pal.
"A scientific fact is that 96% of the so-called "greenhouse" gases are created by nature, not man."
do you know what "rhetoric" is, mr. jody? here is the definition (from encarta, see both #1 and #3):
rhetˇoˇric [ réttrik ] noun
1. persuasive speech or writing: speech or writing that communicates its point persuasively
2. pretentious words: complex or elaborate language that only succeeds in sounding pretentious
3. empty talk: fine-sounding but insincere or empty language
4. skill with language: the ability to use language effectively, especially to persuade or influence people
5. study of writing or speaking effectively: the study of methods employed to write or speak effectively and persuasively
"in case you are wondering", my point is that people w/ agendas can explain away anything. nature is a complex web of systems in balance, both within themselves and with eachother. the word equilibrium (look it up yourself) is often used to describe these relationships. the "96%" you cite is probably debatable, but the only real issue is whether or not whatever we add is more than the system can absorb and maintain it's own equilibrium, not the relative volume of natural vs. manmade components.
(are you sure you are a guy? think man, THINK!)
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BR
Trad climber
The LBC
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Jan 28, 2003 - 05:39pm PT
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Jody can't be W -- even the current administration has conceded that human production of greenhouse gases has been a contributing factor to global warming.
br
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Jody
Mountain climber
San Luis Obispo County, CA
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Jan 28, 2003 - 05:45pm PT
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"... my point is that people w/ agendas can explain away anything..."
My point exactly! That is why I am not willing to go along with the "the sky is falling" paranoia. I have studied this issue extensively and am not convinced that we should drastically disrupt our lifestyles based on faulty assumptions. I do not have an agenda. I don't own any oil company stock, I am not affiliated with any major political party, heck, I am not rich. I don't own a big SUV, I have no snowmobiles or dirtbikes. I am just after the truth. I will not be hooked by political agendas and hyperbole.
By the way free, when can we hook up and go climbing? I do have a lot to learn in that area!
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FREEclimber
Social climber
SF
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Jan 28, 2003 - 06:20pm PT
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jody-
quit trying to meet guys on the internet, and quit repeating pro-industrial rhetoric if you don't want it associated w/ you or your own personal views (the "people with agendas" are the ones whose data you so freely quote). if you really want to learn to climb from someone you don't even know, and you don't really care if that person thinks you are kind of a dummy, try YMS.
dingus-
see my 1st post... ("just go and bash the whole damn country, lord knows we deserve it! and btw- the greater global issue is deforrestation, which handicaps the planets ability to convert C02 to 02, and population growth, which trumps 'em all!")
Is it me, or is it getting hot in here?
Fc
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Hammer
climber
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Jan 28, 2003 - 06:45pm PT
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Its just you, its not getting hot in here. Jody is the only rational thinker in this discussion. Freeclimber is the one with the agenda (or just brainwashed)... radical liberal, sky is falling BS.
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Ben Rumsen
Mountain climber
Sacramento, CA
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Jan 28, 2003 - 06:52pm PT
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Hey, scientists that live and study in Antartica were saying a cooling trend ( even another ice age ) was coming as little as 2 years ago - this isn't settled by a long shot! Lets start burning hydrogen, then a lot of our supposed greenhouse gas problem will go away.
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Matt M
climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 28, 2003 - 07:13pm PT
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2 things
1) Coal plants are primarily low or zero emisions facilities. The days of black smoke billowing out of smokestacks are long gone. Not to say there aren't polutants being released but c'mmon...
2) MMM Cali - home of the PC cup of Coffee (well, almost) and wild debates galore!
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Jody
Mountain climber
San Luis Obispo County, CA
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Jan 28, 2003 - 07:15pm PT
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free...the Gallup polling group can hardly be accused of having an agenda, they are respected on both sides of the political aisle for their objectivity. The only person I named in a quote was Kenneth E. F. Watt, a liberal environmentalist. So, you are just talking about one of your own when you say the people I quote have an agenda.
As far as learning to climb from someone I don't know, that is just my way of saying I don't let opinions on matters such as these determine whether I can get along with someone or not. Now, when you say stupid things like "quit trying to meet guys on the internet", that is a different story. If you are serious, you are an idiot. If you were trying to be funny, haha! Good one!
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael
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Jan 28, 2003 - 07:40pm PT
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I love living in Cali but...I've been here long enough to know you can't say anything contrary to the liberal agenda with out being immediately branded as an SUV driving, born again Christian, Republican, environmental terrorist.
In reality most people are not so easy to pigeon hole. Neither are global climate trends.
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FREEclimber
Social climber
SF
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Jan 28, 2003 - 08:07pm PT
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boy, it can really be a lot of work to explain this crap to some of you people...
mr. jody-
i was only half kidding in the warning- take that however you like pal.
the context of my comment on the "people w/ agendas" was in relation to the "%96 of all 'greenhouse gases'" stuff, not the gallup poles, (context jody- that matters- pay attention to context or there can never be a real conversation, especially in a forum like this, we will all just end up throwing not-that-witty jabs at eachother that all miss the mark), and as far as being "respected on both sides of the political aisle", all that really means is that they don't ruffle feathers and they are useful to everyone's speechwriters. some questioner of everything you are turning out to be!
and to anyone else who doubts that we humans are changing the planet at an irreversible rate- the truth is that i tend to agree with your conclusions! not that we are not having a massive negative impact that will accelerate exponentially as our population increases globally (that much is obvious), but that we should just push right along rather than try to diminish or effects, so live it up! tear it up! build a huge house, drive a fast car (or 3), eat a macdonalds, it really won't matter for too long anyway- so let's get the show on the road and let the big kahuna of all biological principles- EVOLUTION- back into the game!
what a grand experiment of the evolutionary process our planet is in for in the next millenium! i just wish i could be here to watch it run... and anyone who thinks our environmental impacts are all that serious in the bigger picture is just thinking pretentiously. life will have it's own answer!! (now i sound like the old crazy dude in jurassic park).
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FREEclimber
Social climber
SF
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Jan 28, 2003 - 08:18pm PT
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oops, i didn't mean to open that can of worms w/ you people. do we have to debate evolution now too? sorry kids, i really need to get outta here so i can laugh hysterically at that dummy you all voted for while he tries to explain that he is going to clean up his daddy's mess without stumbling over the tele-prompter like he did when he spoke to the UN (5 words of the right screen, 5 words on the left screen, 5 words on the right screen [boy, this is a really good speech, what does that word mean?] 5 words on the left screen...).
good thing no one remembers osama bin hidin no more-
how much did my daddy's approval rating drop after his war ended?
how can we strech this one into the next campaign cycle?
north criea? now just where the hell is that?
really? nook-ya-lears? in criea?
well we kin jus git 'em next!
well alright!
now we got a plan!
ain't life great?
too bad i can't mess w/ some of these cute interns up in here...
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Michelle
climber
Cali
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Jan 28, 2003 - 08:31pm PT
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"(are you sure you are a guy? think man, THINK!)" Hmm.. what are you implying?
Anyone can quote a statistic to support their point.. it's good politics, a lot of people think numbers are impressive and are easily persuaded by them. They can be manipulated to say whatever you want and in anything but research, don't mean anything (look at the last election, the Usurper "won"). Though you guys are throwing scientific research around, you are really just having some stupid and interminable political discussion. I haven't seen anything about the hard data involved in many of the posts, just quotes about what so-and-so said. And focusing on who's right and who's wrong. What's funny about that is the insight it provides into the real problem.. Human nature. Self-centered, agressive and shortsighted. All adds up to a resource intensive, waste-based society that will eventually consume the planet and evolve themselves out of the equation.
now back to the original topic...
man, the Valley weather has been incredible! Hot even.
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pighumper
climber
Bay Area
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Jan 28, 2003 - 09:40pm PT
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Looks like the Forum is back! Yahoo!
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Jody
Mountain climber
San Luis Obispo County, CA
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Jan 28, 2003 - 09:45pm PT
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You are welcome Robbins, glad to do my part!
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Dave
Mountain climber
Fresno, CA
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Jan 29, 2003 - 12:46am PT
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Hey Jody. Glad to see you're stirring it up, here! I'll do my part to "contribute to global warming" (or not!) in a few weeks on a coal mine survey in West Virginia, looks like. Should be entertaining.
BTW, ran across an EPA statistic yesterday on a methane project I'm working on -- according to those geniouses, methane is 64x (6400%) as potent as a "greenhouse gas" than CO2.
So if ya'll want to stop global warming, quit farting, dammit.
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Bob Jones
Trad climber
san luis obispo
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Jan 29, 2003 - 02:36am PT
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dingus says:
"The guy who said 96% of all greenhouse gases come from nature actually made me laugh out loud... as if we are somehow "beyond" nature and can conjur up new gasses out of the thin ether like an alchemist making gold in a vacuum! ALL gasses come from nature. We are just speeding up the release of some of them..."
exactly. since when are we lowly humans not a part of nature? in that case you might as well include everything in exsistance into nature, because when it comes down to it everything is made up of the basic elements right? steel is natural because it is made of the naturally occuring elements, just a little help from us to form it into something else, but then again as humans, we are a part of nature too. nobody invented us we just happened.
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Bob Jones
Trad climber
san luis obispo
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Jan 29, 2003 - 02:37am PT
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oh, and by the way, my ass contributes to global warming.
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Brian
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jan 29, 2003 - 03:08am PT
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freeclimber. I find you to be transparently pathetic as you spout your scripted, liberal mantra. Jody merely posed the question as to the validity of the global warming debate and you turned it into a partisan, politically based ranting complete with a bashing of the President.
It is certainly acceptable to maintain a differant opinion and debate your views. However, it is wrong to digress to a level of disrespect for one another and for the leader of our nation, whether you agree or not with his policies, thoughts, or philosophies.
Now, back to the weather.............
It's too damn cold......call me when it's in the 80's.......
Brian
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