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marv
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Feb 16, 2011 - 07:37pm PT
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can anyone making the DMM-is-superior-for-not-outsourcing-to-China argument elaborate? I honestly don't get it. Is it patriotism? Rationality? Enlighten me.
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MtnGearCEO
Trad climber
Spokane, wa
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2011 - 07:42pm PT
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Hi all,
We all agree as users, manufacturers and retailers that defects in climbing gear are a serious matter. I really believe this issue with Dragon Cams is a case of everything working as it should once a problem is discovered. It was less than 24 hours from when we saw the first cracked piece to an appropriate response from the manufacturer. This includes the fact that DMM Wales was closed for the day at the time they were first notified of our findings. Only 2 of the #5 and none of the #4 Dragon Cams Mountain Gear had in stock showed signs of cracks and the rest looked fine. Given my understanding of the history of the #6 cam recall, these cracks probably occured after manufacturing and were likely not visible on a QC check.
As much as we like things to be perfect in climbing gear we also like it when it is cool, fast, light, new & improved and frankly we all like it cheaper too. It's hard to fault the manufacturer for addressing our wishes for bling and trying to remain competitive. I do not think any of the reputable manufacturers shortcut the safety side of things, sometimes things just don't quite turn out like they model on a computer or a sample run.
DMM Wales as well as Lisa and Steve at Excalibur have all been quick to get back to us and then respond with a very appropriate recall warning for all cams that might share this problem. This is not a case like CCH where the manufacturer was not responsive to our findings and we unilaterally pulled all the product from our stock and got the word out to the climbing community without the manufacturers help.
Climb Safe and I hope to see some of you at the Red Rock Rendezvous in March where we can engage in a civilized conversation of problems like this while sipping a pint of Fat Tire and celebrating the Access Funds 20th anniversary. (Forgive me for the blatant plug on Red Rocks).
Paul Fish
President
Mountain Gear, Inc
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Feb 16, 2011 - 07:57pm PT
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Mtn Gear (my favorite store). DMM - still tops in general. I'll look things over carefully before I buy though.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 16, 2011 - 07:59pm PT
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With regard to Chinese-made tools and hardware, I avaoid it entirely if possible. I've had countless automotive tools, electronics tools, and other metals just plain fail prematurely. Usually shearing.
I like the German, Swiss, and American made stuff. Better QC in the process of ensuring the proper alloys are used. Japanese are pretty good too.
Can this happen to DMM? Obviously! I wonder where there get their pre-fabbed metals from?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 16, 2011 - 08:09pm PT
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My question to you, Bleuy, was why you would care if DMM opted to outsource it's cam manufacturing to China.
Didn't I just explain why? Sure they can do it, but when you go home they start cutting corners and diluting alloys.
Constant QC is required. Constant oversight.
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marv
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Feb 16, 2011 - 08:15pm PT
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I insist that my cams be made by artisan Aryan purebreeds.
edit: artisan Aryan pure-bred women with big tits. Yes.
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tinker b
climber
the commonwealth
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Feb 16, 2011 - 08:30pm PT
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it seems like dmm handled this quick and responsibly, and mtn. gear seems way on it as well.
as far as why i opt to not buy things from china is due to ethics. when given the choice i buy things as local as i can. the less travel distance the lower the environmental impact.
when i can i buy things made in america because i know that for the most part the workers are treated well, by wage and conditions in the work place. i also know if i am supporting people in my community the economics in my area is stronger and my own economic situation is more stable. when the product i am looking for can not be sourced from the u.s. i look to buy things from countries who have systems in place to protect their workers and the environment.
i would not own a slave in my back yard or dump toxic waste on the land. nor would i give money to people to do that for me. i know that in some ways china is trying to improve this situation, but when i close my eyes and try to picture where a chinese product was produced i see dark crowded rooms in a large factory with smoke belching and a river of filth flowing. that's my two cents.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 16, 2011 - 08:34pm PT
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Marv, or at least some half-bred Steelers or North Caroliners, before we almost destoyed that industry due to EPA and Global Warming schmucks.
Matt, see this thread. I used to have a pic of the failure. Sheared metal. Stanley tools used to be quality. As I said in the thread the screwdrivers are made in N.C. but the diagonal cutters were made in China. Obviosly inferior metals.
My Swiss and German made Xcelite tools hold up damn well. I think some Xcelite sh#t is made here too. Quality!
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=471733&tn=0
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hb81
climber
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Feb 16, 2011 - 08:40pm PT
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For the safety of all of our customers we are issuing an immediate recall for all Dragon Cams size 4 and 5 with turned axle bosses (see images below).
So are all the new ones turned instead of forged? Or are there different versions of the new cams?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Feb 16, 2011 - 08:44pm PT
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Bluey...
China meets the specs of it's clients.
Why would you object to DMM's outsourcing to China anyway?
It seems they might have produced a superior product and oversight.
Ugh....I'm done here. You fail to see my point.
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Khoi
climber
Vancouver, BC
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Feb 16, 2011 - 10:11pm PT
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I have yet to hear of quality problems with Black Diamond gear and Wild Country gear that was Made in China.
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msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Feb 16, 2011 - 11:52pm PT
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Agree- I'm not close to calling out DMM as another CCH. Their response remains impressive. I'd like to replace my 4 & 5 dragons. Mgear is thus far offering a refund which ia amazingly fair- I want the cams!
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strangeday
Social climber
The O.C. baby!!
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Feb 17, 2011 - 12:28am PT
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Thank you Paul. This is why I buy most of my gear from you guys. Great customer service, from nice people... It's not that hard.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Feb 17, 2011 - 01:38am PT
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I always love using the pieces of DMM gear I have. Feel like your handling the Rolls Royce of climbing gear. The new Belay Master is awesome, for all you soloists out there...
Another item of note in regards to DMM and high quality, they recently dropped prices on many of their items... go check 'em out.
Oh yeah, and Nomad carries them, but those guys are all tools anyway. Especially the fat guy with the afro, he sprays way too much on Supertopo.
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NigelSSI
Trad climber
BC
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Feb 18, 2011 - 01:18am PT
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Back to the front page.
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