Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
neversummer
Mountain climber
perris, cali
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:18pm PT
|
(do the same rules apply to a 5.9 route I'm "working" if it's hard for me?)
.........true that
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:25pm PT
|
On a somewhat related subject: Given that it's not okay to steal draws left on a route like that, is it okay to use them? That is, if you've got draws hanging on a route you're working, and some climber happens by on a day you aren't there, is s/he free to get on the route using your draws?
If you show up while this climber is on the route, do you cheer him/her on and then go do something else until s/he's done?
(Just curious about the ethics surrounding the whole business).
|
|
froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:27pm PT
|
If your going to pull the fixed draw pull the bolt to for chirsts sake.
A bolt (esp. camo'd) has much less visual impact than a draw hanging. Is it hyperbole day or something? I guess I need to consult my calendar.
|
|
Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:29pm PT
|
I don't like looking at the draws, and I don't trust them if I don't know whose they are and when they were hung up there.
But it is still stealing, not cleaning.
Leaving gear that isn't hopelessly stuck is the same - draws on a hard sport climb, fixed line on a wall. Judge not lest you be judged.
Ultimately the landowner gets to decide who can do what on their land. Oregon State Parks is apparently OK with the local practice as evidenced by Ian's involvement. So my opinion that it is high end cheating carries a lot less weight. If you want to make a statement, take down the gear and give it to its owner. The only "green" this guy sees is the dollar bill kind.
|
|
jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 03:30pm PT
|
Ghost- Yes any one is free to use the draws, hop on the route or what ever, just not to take the draws home and add them to your rack. The routes in the video are The Big R & Starvation Fruit, 14a and 14b, probably not tons of people lineing up for those.
|
|
Guernica
climber
slow music for fast times
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:30pm PT
|
Extraordinarily well handled, that loser is LUCKY he didn't end up in the crooked river with his hands and feet hog-tied behind his back. I wonder how many people would have been as kind and gentle as Tim was in that situation.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:30pm PT
|
The general consensus most places is that it's okay for others to use what you leave, though it is polite to ask. Though I've never been to Smith.
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:32pm PT
|
Ghost- Yes any one is free to use the draws, hop on the route or what ever
Thanks. That seems like a sensible approach.
|
|
jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 03:35pm PT
|
Froodish- I guess I should refrase that, if you care enough about pulling fixed draws you might as well be chopping bolts. The draws can be removed at any time, the bolts can not. Sadly though it seem as bolts and draws are here to stay and theres nothing any one can do about it. Back to the topic at hand though, stealing!
|
|
edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:36pm PT
|
Beating up thieves just make them angry to go out and steal again...
You folks are waay too nice--TORTURE is what makes criminals rethink their ways.
Pulling out a few fingernails with pliers comes to my mind--but I believe in Old West justice for horse thieves:-)
|
|
steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:37pm PT
|
Don't fully agree with the whole fixed-draw-for-long-periods-of-time deal, but that dude knew what he was doing and knew he was stealing. The part I really like is where he wanted them to think he was just stupid and not just a little slime ball. I have to admire the restraint they showed when he hit the ground. Some lessons should be learned the hard way and that guy was in need of an ass beating.
Why not post the guy's name publicly? He should be fully outed so people can keep an eye out for him. I doubt this will be the last time he plays this game.
|
|
jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 03:40pm PT
|
Steelmonkey- haha sadly the only thing that was not gotten during this all was his name! There are pictures of his car and license plate though.
|
|
Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
|
That was handled very well by Ian and Tim.
|
|
nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:53pm PT
|
The real question is....
Did you send?!?!?!1111169
|
|
edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:54pm PT
|
Mr. Hudon is of course correct--but gentlemen don't deter thieves...
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:57pm PT
|
Wouldn't be a bad idea to post those.
|
|
edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 04:01pm PT
|
I thought about it a bit--no pliers necessary.
Fireman's belay him to a stop (at mid route), tension the rope and tie it off; then leave the crag and let out the air in all 4 tires of his car and take his rear license plate to the nearest trash receptacle.
I wouldn't let him down--let him figure out the climbing game if he is on a 5.14 climb and deal with his own shite on his time...
:-)
|
|
Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
WA, & NC & Idaho
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 04:05pm PT
|
I hate fixed draws personally, but I would never touch some one's property.
Take a frigging rock to the guys windshield?
You guys were way too nice...:)
|
|
nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2010 - 04:10pm PT
|
cool deal, cragman. I wasn't referring to the other guys route. actually, i was asking that question of you and jack (Tim / Ian) - the answer has no bearing on my opinion of the situation at hand.
I think that's a slippery slope, joseph. from a land management point of view fixed or not fixed doesn't matter. using a wrench vs. your hand doesn't matter. they could easily view it as litter. so it must stay an internal issue with climbers and thus is an ethical issue. long term fixed draws i might have an issue with but i guess in the end don't really car. but their draws were on these routes for 2 days, right? it sure strikes me that there is a huge definition between an active project and one you gave up on and are returning to in the "future".
|
|
jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 04:12pm PT
|
Nature-
Ian is still working the Big R. Maybe a send today as it looks pretty nice in the park right now. This video was shot on Monday.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!