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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Dec 18, 2010 - 02:54pm PT
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Uh huh. Best hand drill on Earth! There isn’t even a close comparison out there. John really came up with a gem on this one. I’ve already got 4 of ‘em, but I’d take another.
Luke, are you working off of John’s original diagrams/blueprints? Have you been in touch with him regarding any beta that he may be able to provide?
Here’s one of John’s earlier posts on the Hurricane:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1024821&msg=1024979#msg1024979
Sounds like a great project! Go for it!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Dec 18, 2010 - 03:24pm PT
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I only just used mtnyoung's last weekend. Not a fan.
if I bust the bit mid stance, and I have busted bit tips regularly since I'm buying them cheapo bosch ones now, I don't know how I would swap out the bit without major herky jerky. rocpec, I can swap easy. plus they are longer than a rocpec.
rocpec's downfall is the pinching collet. tape cure there.
thoughts?
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 18, 2010 - 03:32pm PT
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Don't like the way the rocpec feels in hand.
Boy, that sounds just so wrong, huh? ;-)
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Dec 18, 2010 - 03:40pm PT
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Munge,
I am with you. Changing bits with the Rockpec is easy. The Rockpec is lightweight and the Rockpec doesn't have that nasty plug of hardened steel that wreaked havoc on some of my hammerheads.
Maybe it is just that we climbers are used to dealing with hardship, but I don't understand why people think fumbling with two wrenches to change or tighten a bit is easy. I also don't understand why people think fumbling to tighten those small set screws on the Pika drill is acceptable. Why not embrace something that is simple rather than drooling over something that is unnecessarily complex.
Bruce
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Dec 18, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
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I don't know how I would swap out the bit without major herky jerky
what's the big deal? just lean back on yr gri-gri and pull the wrenches out of the hardware bucket.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 18, 2010 - 03:46pm PT
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Hurricane. American made.
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Luke Malatesta
Big Wall climber
Moab UT
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 18, 2010 - 03:49pm PT
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Minerals,
John and I have exchanged a few e-mails we are going off his plans.
Love the interest!
I am looking into donating a percentage of the total costs to a organization that John and I have barely touched on.
Luke
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Dec 18, 2010 - 04:03pm PT
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Why not embrace something that is simple rather than drooling over something that is unnecessarily complex. Because you can't use non-SDS bits in the Petzl. The HSS bits really do drill more than twice as fast on granite. There are issues with that system though - grinding bits and keeping them sharp, bringing lots of bits, wrenches, needing two drills if using a combo of 1/4 and 3/8 (unless you want to try switching collets mid-pitch), etc. Best suited to those planning on doing a lot of drilling. Not sure that HSS would offer any advantage over SDS in other rock types.
Otherwise, Petzl all the way - light, quick bit changes, no tools (meaning extra light). Yeah you get your hand pinched, but a bit of tape solves that quick. SDS bits are dull but last forever and never bind - and they are mandatory for drilling out 1/4" holes to 3/8".
And for those with really big hands - Hurricanes have short handles/grips, and Petzls super short, so the big Fixe drill is probably the best option.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Dec 18, 2010 - 04:06pm PT
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The Rocpec came out after I designed the Hurricane drill. I've never used one, but when it came out I thought it looked pretty innovative.
But then someone told me the drill is held loose in the holder, similar to the way the SDS power drills work. That system works fine when the percussion frequency is high (because you are then essentially crushing the rock at high speed), but I always gave my drills (SDS included) a nice sharp drill tip, which allowed the drill to chissel, rather than crush, the rock at the inside of the hole.
It always seemed to me that it would be better to have the drill solidly attached to the drill holder for control, but it's clear that the Roc Pec has advocates, so a loosely held drill must also have benefits.
It's probably a matter/difference of technique.
I used to be able to drill pretty fast (47 seconds for a 1/4" bolt, drilled and placed in coarse granite--during a timed contest at Cochise's Stronghold), so I was pretty happy with my technique!
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Dec 18, 2010 - 05:10pm PT
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Deuce,
you should really try a Rockpec and let us all know what you think about it. Having used a number of setups over the past 35 years the Rockpec works the best for me.
Bruce
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Luke Malatesta
Big Wall climber
Moab UT
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 18, 2010 - 05:26pm PT
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misspelled to draw attention. Looks like it worked.
Or i cant spell, which is most likely.
-Luke
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 18, 2010 - 05:32pm PT
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Me
One
too!
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Dec 18, 2010 - 05:34pm PT
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Send me a RocPec and I'll be happy to test!
Just kidding.
I designed the HMW after making a trip to the Troll Wall in Norway. Over there they had very nice 8mm bolts you could buy at the hardware store, but no way to hand drill them. With the HMW, with an 8mm collet, you could buy 8mm cobalt steel hardware store drills (or slightly oversize), and off you go. Or whatever size combo you want to use--the collets are available in variety of metric and English units in 1/64" increments.
If you are just using SDS, an added advantage is you can cut the drill down--you don't need the SDS grooves, in other words, the HMW collet will clamp any diameter drill with the right collet--so the drill isn't super long.
Sounds like some folks are happy with the Roc Pec. Maybe Minerals and a Roc Pec advocate could have a drill-off. My money would be on Minerals, regardless of the drill holder!
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campy
climber
California
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Dec 18, 2010 - 07:06pm PT
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Count me in
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Dec 18, 2010 - 08:40pm PT
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Sounds like some folks are happy with the Roc Pec. Maybe Minerals and a Roc Pec advocate could have a drill-off. My money would be on Minerals, regardless of the drill holder! It wouldn't be a contest unless you figured out how to sharpen a SDS bit like an HSS bit - the question would be if anyone could get a bolt in before Minerals did two!
But many people who hand drill bring the kit for rare use, rappel anchors, etc - not for dicey stance drilling where seconds count. The Rocpec system is far more simple. My lightweight backcountry kit is a tiny hammer (cut down Cassin), a handful of 1/4" buttonheads in stainless SMC hangers, a Rocpec, two 1/4" SDS bits (and usually a couple 3/8" bolts and one 3/8" bit) - all in an A5 bolt bag (including the cut down hammer). Sure it takes 2-3 times longer to place a bolt in good granite, but 1) no wrenches, 2) the bits will never bind even if the tip breaks, 3) the drill is super light, and 4) it's quick and easy to get the whole thing going mid-pitch even if you weren't expecting to pull out the drill.
On the other hand the HSS bits in a Hurricane are WAY better for stance drilling - the bolt will be in while you'd only be 1/3 of the way done with an SDS bit - although my guess is that the softer the rock, the less the difference between the bits...
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Dec 18, 2010 - 08:45pm PT
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Greg,
I can drill a 3/8" x 2" hole in granite in Tuolumne with my Roc Pec and an SDS bit in 10 minutes. Are you saying that you can drill the same hole with an HSS bit in 3 minutes (1/3 the time?).
Bruce
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Dec 18, 2010 - 09:32pm PT
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I've only done a few 3/8", but definitely 1/3 the time on 1/4" holes, if not even more.
But 3/8" HSS bits tend to start binding after 1.75" or so, and I think I've done 3 or 4 total now (I'm usually replacing bolts and you use SDS bits - although Minerals switches to HSS once past the 1/4" hole).
And I would make no claims on being speedy anymore, I'm lucky to get my elbow in shape to drill more than two or three 3/8" bolts - hence the need to cheat with sharp HSS bits instead of SDS!
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 18, 2010 - 09:43pm PT
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I'd put money(that I don't even have) on the Mineral Boy.
I've seen him drill. He's a geologist! Does that matter? He also likes to know his gear. Sorry to crow, Bryan. You're fairly impressive, in the working of stone to your aim.
I'm a stone guy, of a sort, too. And I'm impressed. Hurricane, anyone? Anyone?
Bueller? Hehehe. ;-)
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Luke Malatesta
Big Wall climber
Moab UT
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 18, 2010 - 09:52pm PT
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So far with the requests on this thread, and others I know we are at around the 30 mark for people who would be interested.
Not to shabby thus far.
Thanks,
Luke
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SuperTopo on the Web
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the spring broke on my first one; fortunately you can still turn it and it was under the warranty period
Let us know!