Wikileaks question

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couchmaster

climber
pdx
Nov 28, 2010 - 02:17am PT
I don't believe that our government won't utilize this release to "expose" some new "agents" who have never even talked to an American in real life. They can cry all they want in public, the more they cry, the more powerful will be the response they want to see. The response to this fake "outing" will be the executions by the opposition of some previously untouchable types.

A brief search of how the Gestapo did this to the USSR so that Stalin executed a bunch of honest and honorable Russian staff officers as traitors on the eve of WW2 is an interesting case study of how this will occur. But you'll never read about it.

Maybe your kids will. At least that's what I'd expect to see. Wikileaks is setting themselves to be a perfect tool for this kind of action.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Nov 28, 2010 - 02:23am PT
There is a legitimate role for secrecy, and there is a legitimate role for openness.

Both sides of the coin right there.

If it weren't for two sides, one side could make all the calls.
Boy would that suck.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Nov 28, 2010 - 02:40am PT
Breaking: Der Spiegel published Wikileaks' documents too early
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4631404

http://sify.com/news/most-of-the-wikileaks-cables-date-from-2004-report-news-international-kl2g4cbhhaa.html

Washington/Berlin, Nov 28 (DPA) The first details of the illicit publication of US classified diplomatic cables and documents were leaking Saturday on the internet.

The US State Department was bracing for the publication by WikiLeaks of millions of confidential messages and reports sometime in the coming days. Germany's Der Spiegel, London's Guardian and the US's New York Times were expected to simultaneously release their stories and links to the documents in the coming day or so.


The documents are expected to contain classified and embarrassing details or communications about other countries. They will represent the third batch of secret US documents posted by the upstart WikiLeaks organisation.


The German website netzpolitik.org reported Saturday on a brief posting on Der Spiegel online that hinted at some details of the WikiLeaks documents. Der Spiegel took the posting down after only a brief appearance online.


According to the link to the now-disappeared article, the documents will include 250,000 diplomatic cables sent by US representatives all over the world to the State Department in Washington.


Most of the documents were transmitted since 2004, only one document dates back to 1966, netzpolitik.org reported.


More than 9,000 documents stem from the first two months this year. Spiegel Online did not comment to DPA on the veracity of netzpolitik's report or on whether the summary was posted in error.


US Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has reached out to Germany and a handful of other countries to contain the diplomatic fallout ahead of the WikiLeaks publication, the State Department said Saturday.


Only a small portion of the documents are classified as secret, that is, with the second highest secrecy level. An estimated 4,330 documents were so confidential that they were not to have been made accessible to foreigners.


None of the documents that WikiLeaks obtained were classified as 'top secret', according to the alleged Spiegel report.



Embarrassment for Coalition as Wikileaks prepares to release secret US papers
Potentially "embarrassing" comments on the formation of Britain's coalition government are to be revealed this week as millions of leaked US diplomatic documents are made public.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/8165041/Embarrassment-for-Coalition-as-Wikileaks-prepares-to-release-secret-US-papers.html
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 28, 2010 - 03:02am PT
So what this sounds like is confidential diplomatic information that relates to foreign countries where our diplomatic corps was stationed. It undoubtedly includes evaluations of the personnel of the diplomatic and military componenents of those stations, including rumors, embarrasing info, etc....the typical stuff that is collected on the folks in the other camps.

However, what is gained by the exposure of that information, publically? It may actually not be true, but highly embarrassing to the individual, or even the country.

I'm not sure I understand why the ave citizen gains much of anything by access to this info.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Nov 28, 2010 - 03:26am PT
On a more serious note, I'm still waiting for this one to play out a little more before I make up my mind. I smell smoke.
tooth

Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
Nov 28, 2010 - 10:15am PT
All the 'actionable intelligence' is out there already for the US public. They didn't want 20 years of combined war. (unless they had shares in Blackwater and other private contracting companies winning no-bid contracts and skimming 60% of the defence dept's budget)

They didn't vote for it.

They got it.



They would like to spend the money elsewhere, like to help out with the recession.....

But most of them are too dumb and pre-occupied with survivor to notice.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Nov 28, 2010 - 11:38am PT
Julian Assange joined the Arab Reporters for Investigative Journalism Conference
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4631939
http://wlcentral.org/node/367

2010-11-28: ARIJ Conference [Update 1]
Submitted by admin on Sun, 11/28/2010 - 08:31
Julian Assange joined the Arab Reporters for Investigative Journalism third annual conference today via video link. ARIJ is the region's first media network supporting in-depth reporting. The conference is taking place in Amman, November 26-28, 2010.

"The material that we are about to release covers essentially every major issue in every country in the world," Assange said, adding that "Over this last month much of my energy and activities have been spent preparing for the upcoming release of a diplomatic history of the United States," as quoted by AFP.

""This is an organisation with a four-year publication history. As far as we are aware, and as far as anyone has ever alleged in any credible manner whatsoever, no single individual has even come to harm as a result of anything that we have ever published," he said.

According to the event website, over 200 Arab journalists, editors and university academics from 16 Arab countries, including those benefitting from the network in the eight ARIJ countries of operation — Lebanon, Egypt, Palestine, Iraq, Yemen, Bahrain, Jordan and Syria, are attending:

"The conference, sponsored by the Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency (SIDA), is an ARIJ initiative to improve both the standards of hard-core investigations that promote accountability and transparency for the benefit of the public and to foster cross-border networking."



WikiLeaks says latest leak covers "every major issue in every country in the world"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4632021
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/WikiLeaks+says+latest+leak+covers+every+major+issue/3896098/story.html

Owni.fr Claims Wikileaks Leaks revealed in Basel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9642622
http://owni.fr/2010/11/27/wikileaks-statelogs-diplomatic-assange-application-insurance






Well our DoD thinks it is very important, so much so they are attacking Wikileaks perhaps to try and stop the disclosure. But Wikileaks already made a way to get around that. The disclosure will happen whether the DoD/Pentagon wants it or not . . .


2010-11-28: Alert: WikiLeaks under DDoS attack
Submitted by admin on Sun, 11/28/2010 - 16:36
http://wlcentral.org/


Letter to Assange from US State Department:
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/Dept_of_State_Assange_letter.pdf

Wikileaks is not buying it. They have a rebuttal point by point at . . .
http://wlcentral.org/

Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Nov 28, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
http://wlcentral.org/

2010-11-28: Alert: WikiLeaks under DDoS attack
Submitted by admin on Sun, 11/28/2010 - 16:36
16:30GMT: WikiLeaks reported on Twitter: "We are currently under a mass distributed denial of service attack."

The Guardian's David Leigh noted that "The #guardian will publish US embassy #cables tonight, even if #wikileaks goes down"

16:48GMT: WikiLeaks update: "El Pais, Le Monde, Spiegel, Guardian & NYT will publish many US embassy cables tonight, even if WikiLeaks goes down"

Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Nov 28, 2010 - 01:25pm PT
The Toronto Globe and Mail, which not very convincingly claims to be a national newspaper, had a story about this yesterday. Essentially, about the embarrassing things that US diplomats might have said in private (and so honestly) about Canada and Canadians. It might be kind of amusing, and may be closer to the truth than the usual official bafflegab.

Diplomats and politicians hate for us to know what they really think.

It may be very interesting to hear what US diplomats say in private about Israel.
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Nov 28, 2010 - 01:34pm PT
I want to know what the diplomats have to say about Gary Trudeau, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, and Glenn Beck.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Nov 28, 2010 - 01:43pm PT
if people would be cool, we would need no secrets, or locks, or attorneys, or police, or wiki leaks,

do me a favor, today, count the number of times you lock a door or set an alarm, now multiply by your life, which is about 360 time 100 = 36,000 days, times, say ten key turns a day and 8 buttons on the key chain, that would be 18 times 36,000 = 720,000 times you lock or unlock something,

but i realize we do not live in a perfect world,

where's my joni mitchell album, this world has gone nuts,

coyote, where are you my coyote,

or something like a canadian would write,

neil young gets his water out of corte madera creek, and i pissed in it yesterday by accident, sorry neil!
don't drink the water for a few weeks,

Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Nov 28, 2010 - 02:56pm PT
Hopefully the leaks won't out FatTrad as an agent of the DNC and of Peace Now!, working hard to discredit their opponents.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Nov 28, 2010 - 03:06pm PT
(Wikileaks) Classified Papers Prove German Warnings to Bush
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9642724
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,730979,00.html

Classified Papers Prove German Warnings to Bush
By Klaus Wiegrefe[br />11/24/2010

Gerhard Schröder and Joschka Fischer made every effort they could. The German chancellor and foreign minister spared no effort with their appeals, whether in public or private, in small groups or with the eyes of the entire world upon them. In the end, though, it was all for naught. Then-United States President George W. Bush wouldn't allow anyone to change his mind. He was dead set on launching a war against Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein and thereby bringing "freedom," as he put it, to the Middle East. It was a freedom that Bush described as " God's gift to mankind."

Over time, however, this would-be gift from God has grown to become the biggest foreign-policy disaster in US history since the Vietnam War. The war in Iraq and its subsequent occupation has cost more than 100,000 Iraqi civilians and over 4,000 American soldiers their lives. Washington's credibility has been severely damaged, and Iraq will remain a trouble spot for the foreseeable future.

It is facts like these that have helped stoke the outrage since Bush recently published his memoirs, "Decision Points," in which he claims that Schröder -- the very man who won re-election in 2002 in large part based on his opposition to the war -- assured him in January 2002 that Germany would support the United States if it decided to go to war against Iraq. For his part, Schröder was quick to deny Bush's comments, claiming instead that "(t)he former American president is not telling the truth."

SPIEGEL has now obtained a previously secret copy of notes taken from a conversation in February 2003 marked "Classified Information -- For Internal Use Only." At that time, in was just a matter of weeks before US soldiers invaded Iraq. Klaus Scharioth, a Berlin-based state secretary in the German Foreign Ministry, had flown to Washington in the hope of still having a chance of changing the minds of Condoleezza Rice, Bush's national security adviser at the time, and other high-ranking members on the National Security Council.

According to the notes -- all in German -- the meeting amounted to 90 minutes of verbal blows, which primarily stemmed from Rice's "relatively rigorous and uncompromising" defense of the US position. The same notes indicate that Scharioth didn't budge an inch toward Washington, either. In retrospect, though, they document a high point in German diplomatic history, because the objections and predictions put forward by Berlin on that Tuesday have turned out to be legitimate and correct.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Nov 28, 2010 - 03:18pm PT
^^^^^^^

Presumably the neo-cons will claim that the above was top secret, although it's no news to any eight year old. The details as to exactly who said what to who, when, may not be public, but it's well known that certain friendly governments, including Germany and Canada, did their best in 2003 to quietly persuade Bush, Cheney et al of their folly.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Nov 28, 2010 - 03:23pm PT
Leaked Cables: US spying on UN leadership (Washington is running a secret intelligence campaign)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4632241
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-spying-un

Hillary Clinton Ordered Diplomats to Spy on UN: WikiLeaks Docs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4632371
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/clinton-ordered-diplomats-spy-un

By Daniel Tencer
Sunday, November 28th, 2010 -- 2:08 pm

A classified directive signed by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton ordered US diplomats to spy on the highest-ranking officials in the United Nations, according to documents obtained from the latest WikiLeaks document dump.

The targets of the spying reportedly included UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon, as well as the ambassadors of the permanent members of the UN Security Council -- China, Russia, France and the UK.

Even as its servers were under a denial-of-service attack Sunday, making it virtually impossible to reach its Web site, the whistleblower group WikiLeaks began releasing the first batch of US government documents -- many of them State Department cables -- expected to cause embarrassment or even a straining of relations among the US's diplomatic partners.

The Guardian, which along with the New York Times, Germany's Der Spiegel, France's Le Monde and Spain's El Pais received the WikiLeaks materials in advance, dug up a cable signed by Clinton in June of 2009, "demanding forensic technical details about the communications systems used by top UN officials, including passwords and personal encryption keys used in private and commercial networks for official communications."
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Nov 28, 2010 - 03:37pm PT
A Note to Readers: The Decision to Publish Diplomatic Documents
Published: November 28, 2010
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/29editornote.html?_r=1

The articles published today and in coming days are based on thousands of United States embassy cables, the daily reports from the field intended for the eyes of senior policy makers in Washington. The New York Times and a number of publications in Europe were given access to the material several weeks ago and agreed to begin publication of articles based on the cables Sunday online. The Times believes that the documents serve an important public interest, illuminating the goals, successes, compromises and frustrations of American diplomacy in a way that other accounts cannot match.






White House condemns latest WikiLeaks release (updated)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x535249





I'm in agreement with the NY Times.

Sorry, White House. Truth and openness are great disinfectants. It is time our government does the will of the people. Out the corruption and lies.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Nov 28, 2010 - 03:45pm PT
US EMBASSY CABLES POSTED
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4632412




US embassy cables: browse the databaseUse our interactive guide to discover what has been revealed in the leak of 250,000 US diplomatic cables.

Mouse over the map below to find stories and original documents by country, subject or people


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-wikileaks
corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
Nov 28, 2010 - 03:53pm PT
This is the Hillary we know and love! Well done.
Unfortunately its to bad this was leaked.

Can you imagine the embarrassment felt by our diplomats as they conduct
their daily meetings around the world with other countries diplomats?

**"We're F*%*ed"** is probably the common thought going through everyone's
mind at State.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,731587,00.html

United Nations headquarters in New York: US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told US diplomats to spy on other countries' diplomats at the UN, according to a leaked document.

Anyone know what Susan Rice is doing? She's the current American Ambassador to the United Nations.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Nov 28, 2010 - 03:56pm PT
I'm fine with this. We should help our ally Israel as much as we can. I do not see anything really embarrassing here . . .

US embassy cables: Israel grateful for US support
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/120696


That is a lot of money, but it is worth it. Israel and the US have much in common.




Fattrad will appreciate this . . .




corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
Nov 28, 2010 - 04:01pm PT
Project a little Klimmer. This is way worse than when spouses are spying on each other. These people are constantly socializing with there counterparts.

As long as its secret there's no problem. Only when its made public that it
all hits the fan.
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