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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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May 23, 2011 - 06:47pm PT
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Look out below!!!!
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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May 23, 2011 - 08:59pm PT
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Blow it up onsite.
Or commando it in winter.
It is probability getting more slings wrapped around it right now.
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Stoney007247
Trad climber
Cordelia
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May 25, 2011 - 12:44pm PT
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Hey scuffy, check out the latest El Cap report (5/25/11). You can see it in one of the last photo's. Yep, the block is still there. I was climbing Sacherer Cracker a couple of weeks ago. Scary to think that block was right above us. That thing needs to come down.
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nature
climber
WTF?
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May 25, 2011 - 01:06pm PT
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Perhaps Jesse can chime in on the implications of an "organized" trundle?
It sure seems to me that if someone does cut that sucker loose you will want a ground crew to ensure the landing zone is clear.
This then of course makes the whole affair organized. I could see the park service not taking a particular liking to this.
Or I suppose that someone could just go cut it loose on "accident" and hope that nobody dies. At least if it was an "accident" nobody would go to jail.
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The Wedge
Boulder climber
Santa Rosa & Bishop, CA
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May 25, 2011 - 01:53pm PT
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A good scope and a rifle I bet you could shot the tat and send it down.
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The Wedge
Boulder climber
Santa Rosa & Bishop, CA
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May 25, 2011 - 01:54pm PT
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Remeber Pete Absolone !
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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May 25, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
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Here is the photo from the El Cap report of 5/24/11
You can see the loose block and the slings that attach it to the wall. Upper left in the photo.
The problem is that the landing area is almost always filled with people. Perhaps at night some time or in the summer when it is 100+ degrees...
 Luke
PS I'm happy to go around to the top and rappel in to cut the block if someone else can come help organize a ground crew to clear the area.
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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May 25, 2011 - 03:12pm PT
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Stoney and Nigel,
Thanks. Finally an answer.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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May 25, 2011 - 04:16pm PT
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I don't know what the right answer is to trundling loose blocks, but I say if they are obiously gonna go soon and are on trade routes, they should be launched if it can be done safely. Below is one of my earlier posts about and incident on Taquitz's Sahara Terror back in the early 80's:
"I nearly died on this route on a Saturday. My partner was on lead when I heard rock scraping against rock and my partner yelling down to me. I stood up off the belay and pulled out over the overhang to try to see what was going on. My arm (do not remember which one) was exposed. A huge block was loose. We wanted to trundle it but there were too many people below. I gingerly climbed past the loose block with support from above so as not to weight the block.
So we moved on, finished the route and went home.
A woman died on that route the next day. Her partner cut the block loose and it severed her arm; she bled to death at the belay. I was there the day before, in that same postition.
I will never forget. I do not know what I could have done differently, but I feel I f***up by not doing something other than going home."
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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May 25, 2011 - 04:24pm PT
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So you are in the Middle of, let's say,
leading Mark of Art or something. You hear this
yelling and screaming, for like two minutes, as
suggested upthread.
OF COURSE you're going to retreat from your lead
and get the hell out of there, totally vacate the
area that could possibly be affected, not knowing where
the yelling is from, before the rock gets cut loose.
What could possibly go wrong?
How bad could it be?
No one could possibly have foreseen that anybody would
stick around a few seconds too long in such an occurrence,
RIGHT???
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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May 25, 2011 - 04:34pm PT
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If someone goes up there to cut this thing off it has to be organized with a ground crew. I know the park service doesn't like to get involved in this type of thing but maybe Jesse and his bros can help.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 25, 2011 - 04:36pm PT
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We've had challenges of this kind at Squamish, largely relating to cleaning of new routes. A serious business.
Ideally, it would involve cordoning off large areas at the base and on the cliff, and trundling all known loose blocks, not just the one in question. The logistics would be formidable.
ps It amuses me that the OP goes by the moniker "Stein", which in Norwegian (and German?) means stone.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 25, 2011 - 04:44pm PT
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Nah, you need a small ground crew and (as much as I hate them and feel they should not be used for climbing: walkie talkies), a few hummocks. Do it during the week in the off season - oh wait it'll prolly be gone by then ;)
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Mittens
climber
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May 25, 2011 - 05:08pm PT
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This thing needs to be cut ASAP. If you do it, which you should, make sure to have cellphone communication with someone at the base, warning everyone to evacuate the area.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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May 25, 2011 - 06:30pm PT
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scuffy b
you're so thoroughly logical.
;-)
Indeed it's a dilemma. Leave it alone and and WILL come down. Maybe tomorrow, maybe next freeze thaw cycle, maybe after another winter and summer when the slings part.
Very likely there will be people below. That monster is going to explode, either when it hits a ledge or at least when it hits the ground. Whichever, there's going to be a serious blast radius and then a downhill debris fan.
Same problem if it's cut loose.
Of course it could be stabilized in place. Who's going to engineer the job? What kind of ugly cables and bolts would be required? Who's going to pay for it? Who's going to periodically inspect it? When will it have to be re-stablized?
Best if YOSAR works it out with NPS and drops it deliberately, taking due precautions to secure the landing zone. If it's done by a pirate, there'll be all hell to pay.
Who tied it off in the first place?
How long has it been dangling?
Inquiring Minds Must Know
Ron
yeah, only in Yosemite or Chamonix, or the Gunks or Red River Gorge or Verdun ......or or or...... would so many lives be endangered.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 25, 2011 - 07:23pm PT
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IF it hits on a ledge or a rock on the ground the blast radius will be about 30-40 feet. It's bloody amazing - some of it will turn to powder and ohhh the smell. Anyhow my point is that the blast radius won't be too big - it's manageable. HOWEVER how do you predict where it lands? It may bounce off the wall and then it's even harder to predict the spot.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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May 25, 2011 - 07:37pm PT
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The reason this one is so concerning is that geological mechanics is NOT holding it on. Just slings. they WILL fail at some point, probably unexpectedly.
I'm guessing it's about 10 cubic feet of granite. At 170#/cubic foot, that's about 1700lbs.
I'm not sure how high up it is. So guess 1000 feet. 1,700,000 ft-lbs of energy released in its fall which is approx 2,300,000 joules. About 1 lb of TNT energy released when it has all come to rest on the ground. 2 sticks of dynamite exploding.
YMMV
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Pass the Chongo, Chongo
Social climber
love, trust, and T*Rs nuts!
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May 25, 2011 - 07:39pm PT
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Thinken bout doing bermuda dunes soon, will chop in the middle of the night. thanks.
ptcc
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WBraun
climber
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May 25, 2011 - 07:49pm PT
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Put a sling around it and rappel with it to the ground.
What!!!!
You can't do it?
Yer light ......
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