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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Dec 18, 2005 - 07:06pm PT
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Madonna may be a celeb. But the acomplishments of the top climbers impress me so much more. And motivate me. And when you get caught up in this cycle then things like standard setting climbing events do matter.
over and out.
ks
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Tuan DeLusion
Social climber
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Dec 18, 2005 - 07:14pm PT
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Is a Top climber someone who starts at the top of the rock?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 18, 2005 - 07:19pm PT
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Not to stray too far from the topic, but leaving little tokens on climbs goes way back.
One figure in the south used to leave change (as in pocket change). THere is a climb at T-wall called Plastic Toys. There are registers at the top of some climbs for people to sign.
Think about it TR, if you are using chalk, you are leaving something manufactured on a climb.
About Reardon, I don't know him. I just messaged back and forth with him a few time on RC.com a few years ago, about the flack one takes for doing or saying anything out of the ordinary. He always seemed like a nice guy to me.
I really don't think free soloing is the sort of thing you can comfortably ask someone to put up or shut up about, cause the consequences are so final. IT might take a lot of hubris to FS in the first place, even more to talk about it, but it takes even more to say, you have to do that again in front of me or I don't believe you did it.
I really have no problem believeing that Reardon or someone really talented could FS 5.12 on sight, because I have seen a good climber climb V8 highball, with no beta, no tick marks, in three or 4 attempts. I've seen one guy flash a seriously dangerous and iffy V6 highball like it was nothing. He was laughing on the way up.
There are guys who are in another league. that's just how it is, so you might as well enjoy it and tip your hat to em.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 18, 2005 - 07:28pm PT
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My point about chalk was that if you ar e going to complain about people leaving stuff, chalk is the most prevalent and obvious thing left.
Using chalk on wet stuff usually makes it more slick BTW.
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vegastradguy
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV
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Dec 18, 2005 - 09:29pm PT
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bumped into him out at Hemingway Buttress about a month back. He soloed every climb on the cliff (a few of them twice) in the time it took me to climb one, then hopped on the trail and headed off somewhere else.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Dec 18, 2005 - 10:42pm PT
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For what it's worth, I know Mark Niles and have for many years. It was with Mark, Mike, Wes and some others that I climbed when I was in town. It was great fun by all, and I will say there was absolutely no spewing or any obnoxious behavior from MR the entire time. Just loads of laughter.
Mark - the photographer - says Reardon did the stuff that has been reported. Everyone believe it now? Doubt it.
I don't think asking the photographer is going to convince anyone. Nor is asking Bachar. Nor is seeing photographs. Nor is asking Michael. You're going to believe what you want and that's cool.
Maybe I'm odd, but I just don't care one way or another. My 2 cents.
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Ouch!
climber
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Dec 18, 2005 - 10:54pm PT
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"Maybe I'm odd" Maybe. You still da Momma ! :-))
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Dec 18, 2005 - 11:32pm PT
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Very Happily Odd!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 18, 2005 - 11:53pm PT
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Just curious...why do you guys care so much?
because climbing has always been a strict meritocracy, based on the honor system. things have changed, of course. nobody saw croft on his first solo of astoman, but nobody doubted him, either.
now that money and schwag and magazine hype have come to dominate the minds of many very talented climbers, well, i guess people just want proof. on the one hand, bachar says this guy is foe real, and i beleive him. on the other hand, bachar had the commen sense to recruit at least one photog to document his solos.
bottom line? i'm totally psyched about the V8 i sent last week, and really don't give a sh#t about anything else. my climbing is all about me these days. i've outgrown the need for peer recognition. i guess bouldering along 200 days a year in the utah mountains at 7,000 feet on scary highballs you have to drive 20 miles of bad 4X4 road to get to will have that effect.
in any case, i'll give him the cred. but what i think does not matter much, does it??
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Agent Kream
climber
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Dec 19, 2005 - 12:11am PT
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I've never ever seen him eat a doughnut...What in hell is the matter with him???
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Agent Kream
climber
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Dec 19, 2005 - 12:18am PT
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Bailed out post because Tanman has too many photo's of yours truly...
HAve you ever gone to do a route and backed off? Maybe even one oyu have done many times before? I know I have. Seeing someone "Back off a route" proves nothing other than at that moment in time, the person simply decided not to do a route. Tan Slacks states that he knows a "local" that has seen MR back off some routes etc... Well, that proves absolutly nothing about MR's abilties as a whole... ONly that if true, he decided not to do that route for whatever reasons (If is did actually happen)... Could have been something as simple as a loose hold and deciding not to take the chance... Who knows? I wasn't there and it appears you were not either... So just "Here say"...
What I have seen and know positively about MR soloing I have posted many many times... Tan, you have climbed with and around many "Celebrity" climbers of old and new... So have and do I...MR is the only one of all of them that solos at the level most of the "Celebs" climb at with ropes... I need no more proof personally... And I have seen it way more than once... I only know what my own eyes have seen... What the rest is about I have no clue...
locker
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10b4me
Trad climber
On that V2 problem at the Happies
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Dec 19, 2005 - 12:21am PT
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crimpergirl,
I think you've been bamboozled.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Dec 19, 2005 - 12:32am PT
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i thought soloing was about going solo. YOU are the only one one who knows if YOU did it. my 2cents.
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DW
Social climber
desert south west
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Dec 19, 2005 - 12:41am PT
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EBGB's must have been a mind F#&%
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 19, 2005 - 12:47am PT
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The history of climbing is puctuated with the clash of egos. Climbers have always attacked those who they felt were too full of self-love, self-promotion, fame and fortune.
While there are many rationalizations folks come up for hating these guys, the fact is that plenty of other top climbers get just as much press or more, they are just adept at doing it with a greater veneer of humilty.
Reardon, Hans, and Skinner come to mind. On the other hand, Bacher is never included in this league of self promoters even though mainstream media did all kinds of stories on him and he was involved in significant commercial vertures. He just didn't come off "Hollywood."
Ironically, my experience of Reardon, Hans, and Skinner is that they're pretty supportive and inclusive of regular joe climber and celebrate everybody's ordinary sucess and sends. I don't feel threatened or put off by these guys cause I'm (perhaps foolishly) secure in myself and have no talents to have a hand in the silent competitive battle to justify my existence through climbing. I sort of like everybody.
I'm just sharing a perspective here, cause that's the way I call it. Not saying anybody is right, wrong, good, or bad, just human and acting according to human nature.
Those guys would be wise to pretend to be more humble but I guess their confidence and enthusiasm for what they do is part of what fires their extreme sends.
Peace
Karl
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Dec 19, 2005 - 12:56am PT
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Adding to Karl B.'s good post:
Modesty is the virtue of calling attention to whatever it is you are being humble about.
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Agent Kream
climber
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Dec 19, 2005 - 01:08am PT
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Tan don't fall into this crud...
I do not think people are scared by Michaels threat to bring legal action into play concerning his soloing etc... as you imply... It is not what the people are currently questioning, as people have a right to their opinion and cannot be sued for it... It is, or was because of the personal attacks made via the internet towards his wife and very young daughter and a certain website that "appeared" to be allowing it to take place...and in that arena, I totally agree with him and back him and other parents up 100%!!! Bringing in family memebers, especially children??? Big time not cool!!!... Picture it as if it were your own family! Now what do you think???...
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Dec 19, 2005 - 01:18am PT
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to me, a more interesting question than "is he legit" is the question "why are some guys so fixated on mr. reardon?"
how the f*#k does it affect your life?
why the f*#k are you so threatened by any of it?
whatever, i could care less, but i will say one thing- i am starting to get the vagisil joke...
i have never climbed RW, but i can say for sure that i find fairview dome (which is about as hard as i care to solo) to be an easier climb w/out a rope than w/ one, so i am not swayed by croft's experience, apples and oranges (also, i have seen croft fall repeatedly on a 12c and then lower off. of course he is a badass, but he does not walk on water).
then again, no one who's anyone has ever seen me on fairview, so i must be full of sh#t, isn't that right? so will you be posting a new thread to call me out too? just curious.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Dec 19, 2005 - 03:44am PT
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Me bamboozled? No, not so. It's because I honestly have no opinion of whether MR did this or not. When I say I don't care, I really mean that I don't care if he did or not. I have enough of a problem remembering what I've done, let alone someone else.
I just wanted to mention that the photographer says MR did it (it was asked above if anyone had asked the photographer). Merely passing on information.
In sum, do I think that MR did this stuff? My honest answer is that I don't know, and I don't care! No bamboozlement.
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Degaine
climber
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Dec 19, 2005 - 04:50am PT
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A few months ago the Acopa website had a photo sequence of Michael soloing Equinox in JTree. It’s no longer there, but it pretty much showed without a doubt that he solo’d it. Prior to that I remember reading here and there doubts that he had solo’d it.
Karl wrote: Ironically, my experience of Reardon, Hans, and Skinner is that they're pretty supportive and inclusive of regular joe climber and celebrate everybody's ordinary sucess and sends. I don't feel threatened or put off by these guys cause I'm (perhaps foolishly) secure in myself and have no talents to have a hand in the silent competitive battle to justify my existence through climbing. I sort of like everybody.
Well put, and my experience exactly. During the two or three times I climbed with Michael, he seemed much more interested in what I’d climbed during the season than in sharing his exploits; and he spent more time encouraging me than in saying “look at me look at me.” Around the campfire we blathered on about the finer points of Goldschlager as an alcoholic beverage and not once brought up anyone’s climbing abilities.
Jghedge wrote: what offends me is the tone of the article, which not only asks the reader to buy into something which is not really believable, but accuses any doubters of having some ax to grind, meanwhile the article itself is fact-checking and following journalistic standards at a level that would get you booted off your high-school newspaper.
R&I and Climbing have become the equivalent in the climbing world to People Magazine. On the rare occasion when I decide to flip through either, I no longer expect even the minimal journalistic standards to be respected. Perhaps piss poor journalism should be the subject at hand instead of Michael?
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