Tahquitz & Suicide- Classic Randy Vogel Survey Climbing 1987

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donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

May 3, 2011 - 11:19am PT

Can't agree with you on this one. I've seen the Pirate and, to me, pin scars on otherwise pristine granite stand out like a sore thumb and are an unfortunate permanent reminder of the piton placing era of climbing of which I was a part.

neversummer

Trad climber

30 mins. from suicide USA

May 3, 2011 - 11:48am PT

it is a magical place

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

May 3, 2011 - 12:31pm PT

Can't agree with you on this one.

I understand and respect your point. I’ve seen and climbed lots of pinned out cracks which left me feeling much the same way. And of course we have to wonder what would be there today if the line had never been nailed. Perhaps some heinous 5.13 bolted seam / slab? Maybe an unclimbed challenge for the future.

For me though, The Pirate is unique. It is what it is. Yes it’s a reminder of the past, and what was done there cannot be undone, but at the same time The Pirate as it is today can offer a very pure climbing experience. The feature is striking, it is a perfect and direct line, the level of difficulty demands skill and concentration, and the protection is traditional.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, CA

May 3, 2011 - 12:38pm PT

Good stuff!

neversummer

Trad climber

30 mins. from suicide USA

Aug 25, 2011 - 02:40pm PT

Good stuff...even the 2nd time reading it.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2012 - 08:45pm PT

Ice chunks on the lawn...bump!

James Wilcox

Boulder climber

The Coast

Jan 23, 2012 - 11:34pm PT

If I remember Correctly, Largo's three stories,
including The Edge, graced the same issue.
Easily one of the best issues Climbing ever did.

dirt claud

Social climber

san diego,ca

Jan 23, 2012 - 11:46pm PT

Great read, tfpu all these articles from the past, great resource to get some historical perspective. Finally made it out to tahqitz this last year, superb rock ans setting.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2012 - 05:08pm PT

It really doesn't get much better...Bigger but not better!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2012 - 03:05pm PT

As mentioned in the OP, Largo's classic Three Little Fish.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2012 - 12:06pm PT

Three dishes...served HOT!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2012 - 12:08pm PT

Largo Birthday Bump!

mooser

Trad climber

seattle

Jul 21, 2012 - 12:44pm PT

Jim, you are certainly free to lament those days, and what pounding pins has done to the rock. On the other hand, it was a pre-clean climbing era. History is full of examples of looking back in disbelief at "what we didn't see then," and to the extent we learn from them--it's great. And I'd say that in general, we have. To envision someone walking up to the base of Outer Limits, for example, with a rack of pins and a hammer swinging from their sling is to envision an absurdity.

I enjoyed Serenity (and have enjoyed lots of classics in Leavenworth, and other places where pins have left their legacy), and my experience on pin-scarred routes is often one of awe (at folks like you) and the span of technical climbing history.

Just my $.02.

neversummer

Trad climber

30 mins. from suicide USA

Aug 8, 2012 - 04:32pm PT

bump.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2012 - 08:44pm PT

Pounding and aid climbing generally became uncool so fast that the Pirate never struck me as badly scarred.

It always looked like a great clean aid route.

mouse from merced

Trad climber

merced, california

Aug 18, 2012 - 09:40pm PT

I loved climbing Suicide. In the seventies there were so few there excepting weekends. Which is pretty much the only times I was there, more's the pity...

The cover shot on this issue of Climbing reminds me no end of the Stigma on The Cookie Cliff. Crack or face climb? A bit of both, it looks like, and both begin at ground zero. Anyone ever grounded on the Pirate?

With no pin scars, lots and lots of routes wouldn't get free axcents. You all realize that. Quit bitching if you ever drove iron. What's done's done and there's no going back. Just be conscious and grateful of the fact we have been rescued from such folly! Though I miss the bong-bong and the sound of a well-seated pin, climbing is fasster without that technology. It's in fact a different game.

LongAgo

Trad climber

Aug 19, 2012 - 02:00am PT

“Jim said: Can't agree with you on this one. I've seen the Pirate and, to me, pin scars on otherwise pristine granite stand out like a sore thumb and are an unfortunate permanent reminder of the piton placing era of climbing of which I was a part."

Indeed. Pin scars are a reminder of days gone by when they were in use to the destruction of the rock, and on Serenity first free ascent I did wonder "what the heck" as I used the scars to move along and tried to imagine how it all would have gone (or not) without the scars. An odd and very mixed experience. Thank heavens nuts and cams came along as soon as they did.

As for early 5.11s around the time of Chingadera, I remember vaguely a FFA at JT on Intersection Rock I did way back when, maybe in the general period under discussion which now they say was 5.11, but really, who’s counting at this stage. For me, it's all a cloudy but glowing and deeply satisfying time I recall on the sharp and golden flakes of Tahquitz, bantering with my best climbing partner and lifelong friend Bob Kamps. I'd give back all my "achievements" there for an evening with him now if we could get him back from his ashes, some of which a few years ago I cast under a boulder he and I loved at Stoney Point and which I visit every time I'm in LA.

Tom Higgins
LongAgo