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bluering
Trad climber
CA
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Ken, I'm not giving up and I DO appreciate what you do. I was just surprised it was already filled up in YP.
Keep doing what you do, Ken. We love ya'!
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Indian Creek Sushi Fest! I'll be there!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Not giving up, Ken I climbed with Zander yesterday at Indian Rock and we were talking about potential facelift projects in the meadows.
But all of this does draw to attention that other areas need this sort of love.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2010 - 09:15pm PT
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They do Jaybro,
It is not just the outdoors. Cities and towns could use the same treatment and perhaps people would take better care of their neighborhoods if they put some effort into them and instilled some local pride.
I have always hoped that the Facelift would spread into outlying areas and grow over time. In the past I have challenged the communities outside Yosemite to clean towards the Park and they liked the idea but it didn't get done because it takes someone to organize it which is a lot of work. I have found that many people want to and will volunteer as long as it is easy to do so and they will work very hard.
Last year I was toying with the idea of creating a job for myself organizing similar events in other Parks across the country. That is why I started the Dirtiest National Parks thread. That idea is on hold temporarily because I was offered a good job for a year.
Think of the clout climbers or any user group might have if they were recognized as the user group that provided the most leadership and setting the best example in taking care of our public lands. I think it's great that Donini is doing one at Indian Creek and that some of you are thinking of other areas as well.
Ken
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bluering
Trad climber
CA
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I'm going to be talking to a Park Supervisor out at Castle Rock State Park here in the Bay about other issues. Maybe I'll try to organize a similar event. Locally, by the locals who use the park.
It'll be rough, but I'll give it a go. I plan on getting shut down immediately, but it's worth a try.....
Don't get me wrong. I'm an optimist, but I know these people. They just posted zero-tolerance signs at Indian at CRSP indicating no alcohol was tolerated along with other activities...
No fun....
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2010 - 09:48pm PT
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That is great Bluering,
Every place is going to have it's challenges and it is never easy. Just a suggestion, The managers believe they are doing the right thing just as you do. Find common ground and work from there. Also, the powers that be here read Supertopo and it most likely will be the same there. Respect them for what they do and their challenges and they may reciprocate.
Ken
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Bluering, rest assured, alcohol consumption is a common and respected activity at Indian Creek- hell, I climb there!
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bluering
Trad climber
CA
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I hear ya Fatty, but some people can climb with a couple beers and a Summit beer. I'm not talking about belligerence here, just a sane policy. Climbers who like to imbibe are usually pretty responsible, on the way home too!
Alcohol does not equal negligence or disrespect. Quite the opposite. It requires a lot of self discipline. Some don't understand this....
EDIT: I hear ya, Ken. We're working your model.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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bluey, you can also get in touch with the Access Fund, for help in organizing an event. There are clean-ups, trail days, and Adopt-a-Crags all over North America, often supported by the Access Fund. The FaceLift is by far the largest, and I suspect there are few things that would please Ken more than if its success was to generate events elsewhere.
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bluering
Trad climber
CA
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I hope you're not calling for breath-alyzers out of the park, Fatty.
The drunk fools are obvious and taken care of. I do tend tend to agree with your sentiment, but lets be careful where we take it!
EDIT: I have been and am in contact with them, Anders.
Thanks!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Funny you should mention that about Indian Creek; I got busted there for having a keg without a keg lic. And it was a 4 litter, mini keg! $450 fine back in
97
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bluering
Trad climber
CA
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Funny you should mention that about Indian Creek; I got busted there for having a keg without a keg lic. And it was a 4 litter, mini keg! $450 fine back in
97
Ha! and I get called the lush!
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2010 - 11:44pm PT
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Harsh Jaybro.
Were you selling it? There are ways around the rules. Would like to hear more.
Ken
P.S. These days I tease my family as my son is sporting a six-pack on the belly(he is quite an athlete), I think I am running a pony keg.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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I like the stats about how much garbage this event hauls out of the park. This is good. My observation, though, was a lot of people were there for themselves to climb with free camping and party favors. They would fill 1/2 a bag with litter near some convenient parking until about 10am, then go climbing. Now I read about these loud parties and pissing off other groups who are there doing the same thing, except quieter, and we're ripping off their hood ornaments. We all know large groups of people, as a rule, behave like retards. I think this concept needs a little refinement before it's allowed to spread.
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bluering
Trad climber
CA
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They would fill 1/2 a bag with litter near some convenient parking until about 10am, then go climbing. Now I read about these loud parties and pissing off other groups who are there doing the same thing, except quieter, and we're ripping off their hood ornaments. We all know large groups of people, as a rule, behave like retards. I think this concept needs a little refinement before it's allowed to spread.
Alright, now you're coming off like an as#@&%e! I'm one who picks minimal garbage and climbs, but sh#t dude, you're a a-hole for someone who's never been there!!!!
Do you realize how many people are mobilized to clean the park, and actually DO CLEAN THE F*#KING PARK?????
I didn't think so. It would boggle your mind.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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I was there in 07 and that's what I saw. I've hauled quite a bit of trash from the base of el cap, LONG before facelift came to be and w/o anyone asking or giving me free camping. So, you f*#k off - you sound like a waste of a camp spot.
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bluering
Trad climber
CA
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I've hauled quite a bit of trash from the base of el cap, LONG before facelift came to be and w/o anyone asking or giving me free camping. So, you f*#k off - you sound like a waste of a camp spot.
Well, it's nice that you do that! I was going to point out that many of the Valley denizens who use this 'free camping' also use for free climbing on some days. You know why????
Because we pick up trash EVERY F*#KING TIME WE'ER THERE!!!! DESPIT THE F*#KING FACELIFT!!!
Some people, like yourself, are responsible. I feel if i put in a day or two of work at the Facelift, I'm entitled to take a day off and climb. And I don't think Ken gives a f*#k, as long as everyone's cool and the place is clean!
Ya know?
I don't know what your problem is. Maybe we don't have one, just a misunderstanding.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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No doubt a few take advantage of the 'system' - that is, take advantage of the YCA, Ken, and their fellow climbers. Mooching free camping, taking part in all the free events, and not really contributing, either by picking up garbage, or support activities. And there are a very few who are downright foolish, or abusive - drunk, noisy, uninvited camping, and so on. (The drunks who crashed one of the evenings last year, and got arrested, being a classic.) These behaviours are disappointing, but seem fairly unusual. Most people do their best to help.
We have to govern our own behaviours at the FaceLift, remember we're there to help, set an example, and not forget that we're still subject to the same rules as usual. That doesn't mean picking up garbage 12 hours a day for the whole FaceLift - the point is also to have fun. As long as you're actively helping out, in whatever way works. It's between us and our consciences.
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jstan
climber
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Several years ago during my first FL I collected trash with people from Fresno and from the other Valley. Ken is a climber and he has mobilized lots of people, including climbers, to support our National Parks.
The only litmus test here is do we appreciate our parks. It makes no difference whether I am a climber. It makes no difference whether I pick up trash for one hour or for ten hours. Only one thing counts.
Am I helping to support our parks?
Edit:
Anders and I were typing at the same time. I apologise for the redundant post.
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bluering
Trad climber
CA
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Am I helping to support our parks?
Again, and I don't want to sound arrogant, but many BAY AREA VALLEY DENIZENS do theirpart on a weekly basis with no free camping from YCA and they ask nothing in return.
Many here know what I mean. The list is too long to list names, but you've seen the TR's and pics. These people all pick up trash on every outing, as much as they can carry anyway. I do and I know they do as well.
You people who come from out of state are well appreciated and very welcome, but let's be realistic. The park is fine. An annual coordinated cleanup is welcome, but let's have fun with it too. Geez.
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