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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:06am PT
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OK. Bertrand’s party: had rainwear, survived the storm, and got off the mountain.
Let’s not rip on them, except for style points. They lost some points by whining for their bail-out gear back.
I’m proud of them for doing it and surviving, although I will sympathize with Cragman: since he has to fetch the people or bodies that don’t self-rescue.
I am a great believer in: “the first church of weather reports-----scared of lightning sect.”
On the other hand: Mr. Negativity-----High Fructose-----let’s see some climbing stories and first-hand photos. Your climbing BS is lacking credibility. Silos don’t count.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:08am PT
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Bert wrote-
"Here is the sky about 1 hr before the rain started. Would you guys have bailed at this moment?"
(1) Were you hearing any thunder in the background? (2) How much experience in that area did you already have under your belt? Comparable to a smart local's? emphasis on smart, (3) Were you packing necessary gear, headlamps, rainsuit, etc. to provide options to begin with?
Remind me, how did you exit and at what time?
EDIT
Cragman- You're just b.s. ing now. Careful, you're going to wind up in Klimmer's camp.
EDIT 9:10p "Except mine is augmented with opportunites to make someone's day if I am able to return their gear to them. I feel better about keeping gear if I have no means to find out who's it was or no way of getting it back to them."
Nicely put. My ethic, too. Think of it as a new and higher standard. I do. -Like not pissing all over El Cap if you want.
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Bertrand
climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2010 - 12:08am PT
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BDC, I have almost the same Booty philosophy. Except mine is augmented with opportunites to make someone's day if I am able to return their gear to them. I feel better about keeping gear if I have no means to find out who's it was or no way of getting it back to them.
If somebody out there has my gear and wants to return it, I won't turn it down. That doesn't mean I am holding my breath for it.
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sempervirens
Trad climber
Trinity County
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:10am PT
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Bertrand, good on ya for posting and putting up with the lashings. We all learn. Lots of good advice, most of it we have all heard many times before. But that doesn't mean we always heed good advice.
Those admonishing you for being egotistical should see the mirror. THey're using your courage to tell the truth as an oppurtunity to pump themself. I don't think you need to be scolded when you're exposing the situation in the first place.
I say Cragman is giving good advice sincerely. The chief is wanking himself.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:13am PT
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Cragman- Since you started it, I'll finish it: You're a bloviating pinhead.
Fritz- Go fish.
And who is being "Mr. Negativity" here? Re-read. I would've climbed out. Sooner or later. I would've been there at 20%. Hey, did you hear me? Go fish. Pate could give you some pointers if you're nice.
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:14am PT
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Blah blah blah... Who gives a sh#t. Good on ya for trying to return some gear. That climb looks sick. "prove your a climber fructose!". So lame cragman. So lame
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:21am PT
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My experience is evidenced, revealed, in my posts. Post up where you read bullshit or stop with the Republican-styled talking points. To those of us actually in the know, it reveals that you are weak, lame. You shallow-thinking ultra-conservatives...
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:22am PT
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bert-
let me save you some hard earned cash next time you bail.
if you have cash or cams growing on tree, disregard the following, but since you are here online begging for some charity, it seems neither is the case?
anyway-
3 solid pcs of gear in a fully equalized anchor is what you left there?
ok fine-
but fyi- that's an acceptable anchor for a scenario where the anchor could potentially take multiple dynamic loads, even be slammed in multiple directions. rapping is more or less a static load, so that's just wasteful, you are just too in the habit of needing 3 pcs to feel good i guess?
plus you had 2 parties of 2?
so 4 people bailing?
i guess one possibility is you all 4 simul-rapped to speed things up cause you were haired out by the juice in the air? if that's the case, maybe disregard this post.
if the 4 of you rapped in succession, her's what i'd have done in your place:
1) let the lightest climber w/ reasonable experience rap last
2) pick the very best placement you have available, and rap directly off the one pc in that spot
3) build a 2 pc back up anchor that hangs just barely lower than the point you are rapping from, so it's back up for safety but never gets weighted by anyone on rappel.
4) pay attention to the gear as the 1st 3 people weight, rap, and unweight the gear.
5) if it all looks good and nobody moves around during the 1st 3 raps, you can be pretty comfortable that the other 2 pcs are not necessary for the 4th
...
it's up to you, but-
6) often this is done even w/ a nut and sling- so the cams back up only, never weighted, the 1st people to rap help set the nut even better (hell, slam 'er home, you are leaving 'er there anyway, right?) and after seeing the nut perform you have a foundation for determining how you expect the nut to perform...
seriously, you guys bailed off 3 cams?
only if you don't trust any of them would i leave 3...
just my $.02
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Bertrand
climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2010 - 12:22am PT
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Ya 3.5 hrs...I don't really know. We started walking around 5, then I think it was 7ish at the end of the escarpment, then we took pictures and snacked and wood-poled our backpacks. Then the down scramble. I didn't check the time when we started climbing...I just assumed 3.5 ~I did lament not having my old climbing watch on my harness. My partner had the only time piece, and since I usually climb fast I never worried about our pace until it was too late.
HFCS, no audible thunder until after the rain started.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:31am PT
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Backed off two routes this week because I didn't feel I could safely get us through it by the time weather rolled in.
Promised my 57 year old mother I would take her on the west ridge of conness - camped at Young Lakes and by 7 am there were big puffy clouds moving FAST. Took her two friends and her to whitney to do the east butt, we took too much time, didn't feel I could safely get all of us up the thing in a summers day - sh!t happens. Left a chock and a sling up on E Buttress, whoever gets them gets the good luck of a 25 year old climber that wants to be a 75 year old climber.
Good days come and go, and even if you don't do what you thought you would, there are always extras. Turns out, backpacking in the sierras, even carrying an extra few pounds of rock gear, is fun in and of itself. There were no losers.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:32am PT
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Here are the trees I alluded to- from this winter's ski trip:
Fine cover for next time. So now you know.
Take heart, too. Cragman would've bailed also- not because he's not a local but because he's a FOOL when it comes to electricity. (As a fundamentalist Christian he believes devilry and demonic energies exist in them there thunderbolts.) So don't feel, bad, Bert. Kudos to you. Happy storytelling.
EDIT to ADD:
Excellent, first up on the new page- So everybody is sure read about Cragman.
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Bertrand
climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2010 - 12:35am PT
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Hey Matt, great comments. I should have been more explicit earlier. The gear was not for rapping...it's a whole other story that I need not salt this thread with.
Basically, I concluded that the crack in the picture led to nowhere and I needed to come down and get back to the standard route which was way left...but not so far left that we couldn't rap down from above to retrieve the gear. I eventually did find the route and made it to the next belay during a light sprinkle. By the time my partner was up, it was full monsoon, and prudence dictated we skip the side project of retrieving our gear. Eventually we topped out, which is a different story.
Getting f'd up with the route finding is one of the multiple confounding events I referred to earlier. If that didn't happen, I think we would have been off before the rain. I think I will do better next time.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:35am PT
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I do want to mention; this has been a construcive thread except for
High Sugar corn syrup------ Mr. Negativity.
He is so quick with a comeback. Many consummate conmen are!
HFCS: Put up or shut up! Post some verified climbing stories, or go back to your stupid spewing in the religious and political threads.
Later edit! The tree photo in your last post is obviously taken in late spring or summer. Your winter trip story = more HFCS BS.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:38am PT
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Believe in Baby God Jesus, Fritz. C'mon, confess, you have a dog in this fight and it ain't climbing. You're the DENIER. Good company for Cragman.
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Bertrand
climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2010 - 12:42am PT
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HFCS, thanks for coming to my defense earlier, and for the escape advice.
Others, I really appreciate your comments. I made some mistakes and this stuff helps the analysis. I am glad for the information.
Now it's time for Kum-BYe-Yahh
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:52am PT
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woah Jim, she sounds hard!
My mum wasn't out for a once-in-a-lifetime stroll. She probably has 200 days in the sierra back country, and was fresh off a trip over forester pass to Williamson and Tyndall. I'm the ropegun, she's the one that knows how to cook in the woods... except when we don't get to climbing, then I just get fed. Which isn't bad.
The day we opted out of conness she day hiked down to the meadows and back up to reserve a campsite, then grabbed her pack and shouldered it down one more time... down up and down for 21 miles. yikes.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:52am PT
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"Topos are good but no topo is sublime"
amen.
I love the supertopoes as much as the next guy, but the best memories seem to be when I leave it at home and figure it out on my own. Though it seems half the time I dont figure it out...
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:54am PT
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Before leaving us, Bert, tell us how you made it out. Thanks.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 19, 2010 - 01:01am PT
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Hahaha what a flame war ...
Anyways .... lightning scares the sh'it out me.
I got knock out by it on the Prow.
On Tiisack it was all around me & Kauk and on the Tower in Borneo during a typhoon me and Hoover thought for sure we were gonna get fried .....
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Jul 19, 2010 - 01:08am PT
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High Fructose: I am an atheist and a liberal.
Unlike you: I do not live to argue-----but your negativity is a detriment to this forum.
Post some climbing credibility, or crawl back to your “spew threads.”
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