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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Boulder Creek CA
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Jun 28, 2010 - 05:37pm PT
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Thank you Jesse!
We spent Friday and Saturday climbing in Yosemite. The Valley floor was completely mobbed. Once we left the road we didn't see even one single person except for cars below us on the highway and headlamps of half a dozen parties on El Cap.
However the roar of Harley Davidsons never stopped. It used to be that my least favorite part of climbing in Yosemite was listening to the garbage trucks banging the dumpsters as you hang high on the walls. However this weekend the roar of the waterfalls was overcome by the noise pollution of the bikes. Recognizing my bias, as my BMW Rockster hardly makes a sound in comparison.
Driving out of the Valley the traffic was stopped cold for 5-10 minutes at a time.
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tinker b
climber
the commonwealth
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Jun 28, 2010 - 06:23pm PT
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thanks jesse,
and as mentioned above, it would be great if climbers can be examples of great stewards and keep the bear boxes clean...they can get nasty...
containing food in something, instead of cans strewn about, would be a great help. i am sooo glad the bear boxes are around, and it will be nice to be able to have a place to throw away trash i pick up down there. a recycling can would be nice too with the amount of cans and bottles consumed on the bridge.
j
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 28, 2010 - 07:19pm PT
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Thanks, Jesse.
John
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 28, 2010 - 07:26pm PT
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"Better to light one candle, than curse the darkness"
But before lighting the candle, do an environmental impact statement, and file dozens of forms and reports in quintuplicate.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Jun 28, 2010 - 07:30pm PT
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Hope the cans get installed, if so a BIG THANKS to Dean for getting this started and addressing an issue that is a EASY fix, with a lot of excuses NOT to get it done. Good job Dean.
Peace
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Brian Hench
Trad climber
Anaheim, CA
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Jun 28, 2010 - 08:00pm PT
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I was there this weekend. It was my first visit as a climber. What a madhouse! I only picked this weekend to visit because I was already in Fresno on other business.
I noticed the noisy motorcycles all right. This state already has a noise provision in the vehicle code that never gets enforced. Maybe in the Valley it needs to be enforced.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
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Jun 28, 2010 - 08:28pm PT
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Harleys are easy. Just push them over.
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Brian Hench
Trad climber
Anaheim, CA
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Jun 28, 2010 - 08:48pm PT
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As far as the argument about loud being a safety issue goes, its not a safety issue for me. It's their choice to take the risk. Don't make me suffer for your choice.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 28, 2010 - 10:17pm PT
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NPS has groupthink issues about infrastructure improvements that have contrary results.
There is employee housing in what was once parking lots. That allows everybody to believe no new impacts have been introduced. But then the valley road shoulders have then become parking lots themselves due to lack of parking. From the Lodge to the village, even on Monday, it's a continuous line of parked vehicles. It didn't used to be that way.
That one of the biggest eyesores I've ever seen since moving to Yosemite well over 25 years ago. It looks worse than it did before they starting eliminating campgrounds, parking lots, housing, lodging and other stuff.
Cause you can't have your head in the sand about reality and try to score points on your resume by politically correct "eliminating" of things without creating unforeseen impacts. There is a shuttle bus stop at El Cap now. That creates an impact zone. We have to deal with it.
Peace
Karl
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Srbphoto
Trad climber
Kennewick wa
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Jun 28, 2010 - 10:50pm PT
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2010 - 11:08pm PT
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Jesse, thank you for doing this. I thought that you were on this and see that you're getting it done. . .thanks again, my pack keeps filling up with trash I pickup, this helps alot. . .D
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Jun 28, 2010 - 11:15pm PT
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Bullwinkle, this has bothered me for a long time too.
Good job Jesse, I hope you can pull it off!
There are several places in Yosemite that could benefit from porta-potties and trash receptacles with El Cap Meadow being one of them. I think they would only be needed during the summer months and could be removed before the snow flies. I have suggested the need for them for years and received the same visual eyesore response.
Imagine driving up here with your family and waiting forever in line to get in the Park. You try to hustle to the Valley to get a camping spot before the good ones are filled up and suddenly your kids have to go to the bathroom and perhaps you do too. You pull over at the next empty turnout and pile out of the car with fast food wrappers kicked out by your feet.
From the Facelift, I have learned that all the turnouts have a lot of toilet paper and trash too, some of it intentional but a lot of it probably isn't. I like to think that most people don't intentionally litter. I have also learned that if an area is clean, people take better care of it and if an area is dirty they respect it less and are more likely to litter.
Ken
P.S. Jesse, I have a dumpster design that is not a big visual eyesore. We should talk about it sometime.
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Jun 29, 2010 - 03:17am PT
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Thanks Dean, and Ken,
I really think its going to happen this week!--hopefully before any NPS "group think" kicks in. ARghhh as my head flattens from banging it against the wall.
I'm going to ask for a recycling can as well. That one should be a no-brainer. Especially if there is already a route to the other West Valley busy spots. It is definitely needed. There is more parking at El Cap than Bridalveil, and Valley View combined, and during the climbing season more people in the meadows and environs for sure. Those other spots have toilets, trash cans, and recycling depositories. Baby steps, that's the way the cogs turn.
BTW, the locked port-o-potty is a contractor toilet from when they had the flood control operation (I'm pretty sure). I'll look into it and get it pulled out of there.
Jesse
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 29, 2010 - 11:27am PT
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Jesse writes
That said, I put in a request for two trash cans to be placed at El Cap Bridge near the food storage lockers. If they do get installed—and I hope they do by this weekend—try not to fill them up with significant amounts of your wall trash (use the dumpsters at Manure Pile) so other visitors will have a place to put their trash.
Thanks for all you do Jesse
I share that concern and for sure have fears that a couple of cans could be abused by folks getting off their wall. The Manure Pile dumpsters are right in the path of descending climbers but I'm afraid some will feel too bushed to unpack their haulbags to get the trash in the dumpster but when faced with loading the foul stuff in their cars, might get motivated to stuff the trash cans. This would be wrong!
I think it could save a lot of grief if a little laminated sign on the trash cans could discourage people from unloading poop-tubes and big caches of wall trash/water bottles into two small trash cans. Hopefully, it would be enough to overcome the temptation that allows climbers to trash camp six, the summit and the descent trail with trash or to overload some trash can that's obviously not dumpster enough for the job.
It's not just NPS that suffers from collective human nature distortions, it's us climbers as well. If we expect change with the institution, we should also work on ourselves
Peace
Karl
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 29, 2010 - 11:32am PT
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You don't want trash cans there.
You want a regular trash dumpster.
A couple of trash cans will be full in a half a day and the idiots that stop in their campers will just dump all their garbage bags right next to the cans.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 29, 2010 - 05:23pm PT
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Thanks for working on this.
I think Werner is right, it needs a dumpster or it will be overflowing.
A dumpster isn't really much more of an eyesore than bearboxes.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 29, 2010 - 05:45pm PT
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It's interesting that it's the climbing ranger who is taking the initiative on this. 100% of the garbage in and near the meadows is tourist garbage, but 99% of it is from non-climbing tourists.
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Jun 29, 2010 - 05:50pm PT
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Fun stuff. Good visual there locker.
Any place in the Valley that has bear boxes should, by default, also have trash cans/ dumpsters. Yes, the el cap bear boxes are gross with all the rotting trash- but it's not like you want to leave rotting trash in your car either (bears!). Most folks aren't going to drive the 10? mile round trip just to dump the trash in a can elsewhere- and if they do, then that car trip has its own impact. This is the same for any trailhead, really.
As for the trash in the meadow, just pick it up if you see it. If you don't see any trash, then the meadow is beautiful because YOU did a great job.
Like Ken said, trash blows out of cars when people open doors. This will always happen. Trash cans at the meadow proper probably won't help much with the blown trash- and definately won't help with jerks who litter on purpose- they will toss trash on the ground regardless of the proximity of trash cans. It would, however, make life easier for the good sams who pick up random pieces of trash since they will have some place close to put it. I have passed up picking up certain types of trash (usually stuff with food stuck on it) if there is no place to put it nearby. But a can or a dumpster in the shade of the trees next to the bear boxes shouldn't ruin anyone's good time. Really, a trash can/ dumpster is just the same as a bear box- it's made of steel and it smells. Just shaped different.
What Jesse said about education is important- I used to spend several weeks per summer in the Sierra National Forest with my folks. We always went by the ranger station and us kids got these cool woodsy owl durable plastic trash bags. My brother and I would spend hours combing the shores of lakes and creeks looking for trash to fill these bags- and we found plenty of trash. Kinda like a treasure hunt. Then we'd take the full bags (we'd actually filled them many times and emptied them out in a campgrond dumpster) back to the ranger station and get a woodsy owl sticker or something. Those lessons of caretaking for the land have always stayed with me. You do need to get to folks when they're young if you want to make a lasting impression.
Give a hoot, don't pollute, yo.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Jun 29, 2010 - 10:25pm PT
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yo WB, that's exactly what i was thinking-
same with any kinda bathroom, it would instantly be a colossal clusterf*#k on valley exit days...
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