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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:43pm PT
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About ten years after Larry Penberthy and MSR did. The MSR Thunderbird might not have been pretty, but it sure was a durable axe - and not just for chopping ice.
Didn't the Rainier rangers have a ice axe test they did for prospective climbers? Where they stopped on the shaft, and, if it broke...
Bill Sumner? I've always thought the Thunderbird pick design was fairly unique. Did Camp/Chouinard make the Bill Sumner REI model? Blue composite shaft with a t-bird pick profile. Heavy, burly tool. Anyone know that history?
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:46pm PT
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where is Leversee when you need him?
I am not sure if CAMP made the blue one or not, Julio?????
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RK
climber
Santa Cruz, CA.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 10, 2010 - 05:04pm PT
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Wow what a response! Lots of information.
One post asked if I had oiled it, and the answer is a qualified no, athough after 30 years my memory is not perfect. I did use a 50/50 mix of linseed oil and turpentine on a Climax and early verions of the standard hammer. As point of reference; the adze, pick and very upper part of the head were covered with a leather shealth during the 30 years and was amazingly bright and clean. The spike end and to lesser degree the metal mount at the shaft-head connection were tarnished, and slightly rusted. A quick brush over with 600 grit wet-dry paper followed by a buffing wheel and jewelers rouge polishing compound brought the whole thing back to really nice condition.
If it helps with the identification ... which the "voting" seems to be leaning towards Rexilon ... here is a photo of the shaft on the narrow side. Let me know if this changes anyones mind. Thanks for all the help.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Jun 10, 2010 - 05:27pm PT
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I had that exact axe and trusted it for years as my main mountain tool. Rexilon it is and I beat the sh#t out of it.
One suggestion on it's disposition. Donate it to the American Alpine Club, the Access Fund or the ASCA, which ever is your favorite. I'll get Yvon and Tom to sign it and then the organization can auction it off for lots of money. At last year's AAC dinner, I auctioned off Jim McCarthy's piolet for over $6,000. It was the axe Jim used on some of his first ascents and Sibley and I welded up a nice metal frame with rusty iron and corrugated tin that invoked the image of the original shop. Nice use of baby angles, eh?
Just a thought.
Ed Bannister, Claudio Villa is now working for AluDesign/SSE, the largest carabiner manufacturer in the world. They make some of our carabiners, all of the carabiners for CAMP and lots of the frames for other big name companies. He's the export manager, the same position he held for so many years for CAMP. They are down in Lecco and I'm not sure if he drives to and from Premana every day.
Mal
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 05:32pm PT
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Wow,
thanks for the update,
I miss those guys and the contact we had.
Claudio actually offered US Camp distributorship to me many years ago, but i did not have the cash to be able to do it correctly...
glad to hear he is doing well, thanks!
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jun 10, 2010 - 11:08pm PT
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Are you talking about this type of ice axe? This is not a MSR T-Bird, this is a MSR Sumner, circa 1977. It had a T-Bird profile, but much more droop. Aluminum shaft, originally covered with a heavy blue shrink tubing. I vaguely remember REI marketing a different Sumner ice axe at a much latter date. If this is correct, it was probably manufactured by SMC
Here's a (poor) shot of it:
Closer with a couple of Chouinard axes for comparison:
Beside the darker color of the shaft, and two rivets holding the head on, the construction looks exactly the same.
-Brian in SLC
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jun 10, 2010 - 11:39pm PT
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Couple shots of CAMP tools and different shaft materials:
Left to right: REI, some strange version with a part metal sleeve and long slot in the head, two Chouinard-Frosts.
Close up of the shafts, in the same order:
If I had to hazard a guess at the shaft types...uhhh...maybe the second from the right is bamboo. The others might be hickory? Dunno.
Cheers,
-Brian in SLC
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 10, 2010 - 11:41pm PT
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Those axes are a sterling example of form exceeding function.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jun 10, 2010 - 11:52pm PT
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Catches up with all of us sooner or later...
Ha ha.
Cheers,
-Brian in SLC
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:16am PT
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Brian & all: Since Donini mentioned "form exceeding function"-----we need a function photo-----or three.
My 60 Cm. Chouinard Piolet and I were "an item" from early 1974 to about 1982. We have dated since, but I have not slept with it----like I used to in my younger days.
I do keep it in my bedroom!
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:51am PT
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A great piece of work. I'll have to clean mine up and put
a shot of it here. . .1973 vintage. .
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aguacaliente
climber
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Jun 11, 2010 - 01:47am PT
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Blue REI "Sumner" axe. It says USA on the pick, so guess it wasn't made by CAMP. Is that fiberglass cladding on the shaft? It's metal underneath.
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RK
climber
Santa Cruz, CA.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2010 - 10:32am PT
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Regarding the post from 'Mal' suggesting to donate the axe, with signatures, to the AAC. If I decide to do this who would I contact to make this happen?
Right now I am leaning to keeping it versus my original focus of selling it, but donating is now an attractive option as well.
Thanks.
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Ain't no flatlander
climber
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Jun 11, 2010 - 11:34am PT
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Note that much of the value in the axe that sold was in the signatures, plus the nice display (pity about the head cover and spike guard hiding the artwork of the tool). Your axe is a beautiful example but it still isn't worth much over $500. Add some signatures from the great ones and it becomes something to drive the bidding up. More signatures brings more money. See Chessler's site for examples.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jun 12, 2010 - 12:17am PT
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re: OP; laminated hickory I tell you. Don't listen to those other wankers. Unless "rexelon" and laminated hickory is the same thing?? I thought rexalon was a synthetic shaft, which this clearly isn't.
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RDB
Social climber
way out there
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Jun 12, 2010 - 01:35am PT
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"The rexilon shaft on Chouinard ice axes was made of a laminate of
18-layers of beech ("faggio" in Italian). It was originally used for
pole-vaulting poles in the days before fiberglass composites. CAMP used
this before bamboo but both were available for a while."
As others have already said yours is Rexilon. Tough as nails but hated the funky white that showed up after hard use in the wet. Wish I had bought several now.
Hey Ray, trivia for you, the axe Gwain took to Deborah was a 75cm Rexilon that replaced with a 70cm synthetic handled orange Nanga Parbat. IIRC he then bought a short bamboo Piolet and dropped that one the Eiger.
Never could figure out why he wouldn't pay $5.00 more for a lighter axe. That Rexilon one was a real battle axe!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Jun 12, 2010 - 11:44am PT
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Dane: I don’t recall stocking the Rexilon Piolets in my shop.
To me: it was all about the esthetics of the laminated bamboo.
As for needing a stronger shaft for the legendary “boot-axe” belay: I sure as hell, refused to sell the orange MSR Thunderbird (day-glow metal monsters). We didn't do the "boot-axe" belays either.
Here's a shot of you & Gwain at our bivy on Deborah, with a Piolet in background------and a Pterodactyl.
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RDB
Social climber
way out there
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Jun 12, 2010 - 12:59pm PT
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Unbelieveable I just realised what I am doing there. Writing in my journal. I'll have to dig that out and see what I wrote. Gwain picking his feet or what :) But think he is cmaking water on an msr.
Two Piolets in that picture :) Yellow slinged one on the left sunk to the head is mine (still have it) directly in front of the terro with the red sling (Gwain's). Hey, remember that nasty mixed section from the previous night's climbing? And your wart hog I broke? I had liked Terros beforehand but decided Terros really rocked that night :) The Piolet in the back ground with the blue sling is Gwain's. It is Rexilon and loooong. Never did know for sure where he bought it but maybe it was Selkirk Bergsport in Spokane. I know he really liked my bamboo. (Hell he used my Zeros and left both of them in a thunder storm which took years to get back but that is as they say, "another story") Got the feeling he just refused to be a follower. But just as easily he could have got it in Seattle on sale! I never saw many of them. I do know exactly where he lost his though :) He refused to climb with a short Forrest axe we had as a spare. (BJ's picture previous) Bad morning that.
Funny with all the lore behind Jeff and Mike using 70cm piolets on the 1st ascent of Bridalveil, there is a pretty clear picture of Mike in Jeff's book using a short north wall hammer as well on the 2nd pitch of BFalls.
I asked Jello about it once but never heard back. Maybe he'll chime in here.
I'm reminded of that because I remember Gwain trying to lead the pillar on Louise with that battle axe (heavy and long) and my shorter piolet the same season as your pictures posted above. We failed of course. Took a set of terrodactyls to finally get up the thing. Which were then lowered to the second. Pretty funny now in retrospect when we climb the pillar now :)
Anyone remember bending the picks on a Terrodactyl?
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RDB
Social climber
way out there
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Jun 12, 2010 - 01:19pm PT
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Here is a short hickory Piolet
and a longer bamboo Piolet
Pretty easy to recognise the difference when you see all three (if you add the Rexilon) together.
Gwain terro in hand.
James with a Zero bamboo hammer on Deltaform.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jun 12, 2010 - 05:02pm PT
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from: http://www.bradleyalpinist.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=28
Chouinard-Frost Piolet
First a little history on the Piolet. Alpinism is said to have been born in the Alps as early as 1786 with the first summit of Mont Blanc. By 1840, the Piolet or ice axe became the inseparable companion and icon of the Alpinist. In 1919, one notable piolet manufacturer in the Alps was Construzione Articoli Montagna Premana (translates to Articles for Mountaineering Made in Premana), or what we know even today as C.A.M.P., which was operated by Antonio Codega, the son of a prominent blacksmith in Premana, Italy, Nicola Codega. Hand forged in Nicola's original shop, Antonio Codega was contracted by the Italian government to produce piolets and other mountain equipment for the military. Eventually joined by Antonio's four sons, C.A.M.P. began making many other tools for climbing, such as pitons, hammers, and crampons. A frequenter of Premana, the famous Italian mountaineer, Riccardo Cassin began helping the Codegas on design innovations. Somewhere long about 1969, Yvon Chouinard and Tom Frost, of Chouinard Equipment in Ventura, California, commissioned the Codega brothers to build an axe to their specifications. This axe, called the Chouinard-Frost Piolet, featured a hand forged, ground and polished chrome-nickle steel head and a hickory shaft, and has since been a mountaineering equipment classic in the both the US and in the Alps. By printing time of Chouinard Equipment's first catalog in 1972, the Chouinard Piolet shown on page 34 had a new laminated bamboo shaft design, dubbed to be lighter weight and just as strong as the hickory shafted orginal. Over the next 7 years, the Chouinard Piolet went through a few other design changes, including a revised marking on the head, omitting "Frost" from "Chouinard-Frost". This change was first seen in the 1978 catalog, even though Tom Frost had left the company years earlier, in 1975. Other designs of the Piolet included a version with two sections of teeth or notches(double-toothed) on the drooped and curved pick. In other modifications, the shaft material changed again, first to a laminated hickory, then laminated ash for a short time, and eventually a synthetic called Rexilon in 1979, after the UIAA began to raise concerns with the integrity of "wooden" axe shafts. All wooden shafted variations of the Chouinard's Piolet were made by C.A.M.P., but the axe model was phased out of production after 1979. Following this, the Codegas still offered virtually the same ice axe (same head, with bamboo or hickory shafts)in Europe, sans the Chouinard marking (although markings still included "Interalp", "CAMP" and "Made in Premana" which are all also found on the "Chouinard-Frost: and "Chouinard" stamped versions). In the early 80's, the REI Coop contracted with with C.A.M.P., having this same axe design orginated by Chouinard, stamped with the REI logo. These axes were offered in REI's original Seattle store through the mid 1980's. From time to time we will feature these classic Chouinard Piolets on this site, and are always open to buying them from those ready to part with the most trusted companion of their early mountaineering days. These items are sold as "used", and the condition of each item will vary; however, we will not sell one of these vintage axes that is worse for wear, and/or "classic challenged". These Piolets are for collectors, and are gear you'll want to hang on the wall or over the fireplace. In each case, when we have a Piolet available, and it is sold, a percentage of the proceeds will be donated to particular climbing related charity, rescue/recovery fund, or memorial fund. If we have not listed any Piolets today, please keep checking back with us, or perhaps you would like us to buy yours. The charity beneficiary that is associated with an available axe will be indicated in the description. BE SURE TO SEE OUR ALPINIST'S PIOLET CUFF (bracelet), inspired by the double toothed pick version of the Chouinard-Frost Piolet, found in the Alpinist Jewlery section of this site. Its a must have signiture piece for both men and women.
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