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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 11:52pm PT
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This guy is a loser just looking for any chance to use his gun,
That's a rather large and unsubstantiated judgmental leap at this point.
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RDB
Social climber
way out there
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May 31, 2010 - 11:52pm PT
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Hey, no clue on why the bear was shot other than what was reported and I sure as heck don't carry a 45 acp in bear country. Not enough gun to solve the problem in a hurry. This couple was lucky the bear didn't kill them both after being shot the first time, cuz it sure could have if so inclinded after the first nine I suspect.
But.....ron sez:
"All I know is this; unless he was carrying a double stack .45 then the only way it holds 9 rounds is for a person to chamber a round from (an 8 round) clip and then put another round in that clip..... (correct, except they are "magazines" not clips)
If it was a single stack that he "supercharged" then he emptied the gun, a strong indication of either fear or azzholery." (pure bullshitery)
Ron and I have had similar discussions before. But let's be fair to the shooter here. Most everyone with any training carries a 1911 cocked and locked, round chambered and generally a single stack. Again most who are trained and chose a single stack 1911 will carry a 8 round mag and one chambered. So 9 rounds is the norm, not an indication of anything, past being trained and smart.
9rds from a 1911 takes well under 2 seconds from a skilled shooter. Add some stress to that, like a griz about to eat your girlfriend, and most anyone will empty the gun.....to slide lock and then reload. And most will then empty that second mag as well, if LE studies are worth anything.
Human nature to shoot till the threat has stopped being a threat. Bear ran off in this case or the shooter ran out of ammo I suspect.
357 on any bear? Not by anyone knowledgable. 45 ACP on any bear again not by anyone knowledgable. Not enough energy or bullet weight in either round. Been done of course just not smart. 44 Mag and 45 Colt with heavy bullets is the generally accepted lower end and hand guns aint the happen thing. 12 guage shotguns or large caliber rifles are, starting at a 338 win mag 250 gr bullets and going up from there.
For those that haven't see a grizzley in the wild, your thoughts on a wild Alaska are nice but easier to say while behind a keyboard, than behind a bear bell :)
I prefer bear spray as it has proven to be more effective than something as pathetic as any hand gun many times over in a charge. When I tramp about the mainland in SE Alaska with Brown or Grizzley about I carry a 5 shot .505 caliber lwt rifle befitting the self defense required for a 1500 to 1800# predator. Charges get answered with bear spray and a 505 backup. But you ought to see the pile of sh#t that results from each use of the bear spray :) And it aint bear sh#t.
Sadly I would have rather have seen a gun used for self defense against the typical human p.o.s, more typical of Yosemite, sooner than a bear killed.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2010 - 11:54pm PT
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Carrying a gun 100% of the time marks you as a guy who is looking to use it.
How long is it going to be in Yosemite before several people feel compelled to open fire in the middle of the night because they were "menaced" by one or more bears. We just threw sh*t at them when I've camped there, but that's way too dangerous for this crowd. (kill em all, let god sort em out) Since it's in camp, they wont even have to be carrying, not when it's such easy access to the AK's stored in the car.
This law is bullsh*t and is going to pave the way for a lot of park animals to be killed.
Think you'll be safe with one or more clowns opening fire in Upper Pines? It"s not just dangerous for the animals.
ps...if you think I am stereotyping, I'm guessing you didn't grow up in gun country like I did. Just go to a couple gun-shows and check out the crowd. Trust me, it will be an eye-opening experience.
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R.B.
Trad climber
Land of the Lahar
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Not exactly true there buddy. Packing heat carries much responsibility. But I know when I carry mine with my CWP, I ain't looking to use it, Oh contrar, I actually am hoping and praying that I do NOT have to use it.
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RDB
Social climber
way out there
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"Carrying a gun 100% of the time marks you as a guy who is looking to use it."
Or one that wants to make 100% sure he won't have a gun used on him or another innocent life.
I'm not advocating carrying a gun just don'tthink it is that cut and dry..."guns are bad."
You stay off 5.11X routes because you don't have the skills or judgement to succeed safely. Smart man. Don't own or carry a gun unless you have the skills to use it safely and more importantly the knowledge as to when you should use it.
My *guess* it the bear charge was a bluff and bear spray would have solved the issue. But I wasn't there. Between me shooting a bear and any of you anti gun or stupid gun folks.. I'd shoot and worry about the animal rights folks later. Hard to get a redo on this kind of stuff..
caution graphic bear attack photos...
http://www.sixbullets.com/_images/bear_attack.jpg
http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn9010/dn9010-2_500.jpg
My though? My fault, the bear's fault, no matter who's fault...if that is the choice I am gonna shoot the freak'in bear! And I love bears :)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Or a detective.
You could be trying to figure out who framed Roger Rabbit.
DIDNT THINK ABOUT THAT DID YOU!?!
Someone's gotta take it for the team, the bear or the rabbit, and it ain't gonna be the rabbit on my watch buddy!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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OH F*#K DONT POST THAT SH#T DAWG
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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unbelievable, a f*#king animal shot for no reason in a national park. one of the main reasons they were created was to protect wildlife.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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"one of the main reasons they were created was to protect wildlife. "
Interesting, I brought that up the other day. Appearantly a guy was taking a slingshot with him on the pacific crest trail, was going to use it to get some protein suppliments via squirrels. You know, in a national forest.
The buffalo soldiers were stationed in Yosemite to keep out them poachers!
Oh, and I plead the 5th on any *real* commentary in this discussion. I've never been in bear country, I have no say.
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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you post photos of people eaten by bears, i'll post photos of people accidentally killed by guns. lets see who can post more.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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CC: Someone using the California flag as avatar, featuring a grizzly bear (extirpated there since the 1920s), would surely know the answer to your question.
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willie!!!!!
Trad climber
99827
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I have a Kimber BPTenII ACP that'll take 13 +1.
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R.B.
Trad climber
Land of the Lahar
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Would anyone feel any differently if a cougar ambushed you on a hike.
True Story here: My neighbor this Memorial Day Weekend went on a day hike. His hiking parter was upslope from him when all the sudden he came running down slope, with eyes as wide as saucers ...
Apparently, he rounded a switch back and the bad kitty hissed at him.
Now, I wouldn't actually shoot a kitty just because they hissed, but I sure as heck would plug em if he was chewing up my partner.
Just have to keep it all into perspective.
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FeelioBabar
Trad climber
One drink ahead of my past.
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ionlyski...it was a joke, and one we used to hear a lot when I was on shot crew details in AK.
But damn that's funny (kinda) about people spraying themselves...WTF?
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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would anyone feel differently if you knew some one who was accidentally killed by a gun?
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2010 - 12:28am PT
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How is it that not even one of the gun nut crowd can concede maybe they just didn't belong there.
By the way, I am a skilled shooter, I just dont think it makes you any safer to carry a heater all the time.
Judging by most of the people I meet that feel naked without a gun, it is not a crowd I would care to associate with.
Besides if I needed a gun it certainly would not be difficult to take one away from most of the group I'm talking about because most of them are geriatric patients. I have a public service job and I talk to large numbers of people everyday.
I'm not saying all gun nuts are this demographic, but I bet they make up the majority of the NRA's dues paying members. They are real believers and often feel a little afraid because they aren't so well off physically. There are a lot of people who fit this demographic and I don't, from my observations think they are the people I want slinging lead in a crowd.
Even if you are all for guns, carrying 100% of the time, etc... does that override your desire to keep our parks semi-natural with actual animals to see?
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R.B.
Trad climber
Land of the Lahar
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A little bit of thread drift there. The point originally was that someone plugged a charging grizzer in a National Park?
In the past, you probably would be seeing a yahoo or google snippet stating something to the effect:
"Two hikers mauled to death in AK national park."
We all like the animals in the wild, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do ... not fun. They will have to answer to taking the bear. I am sure they didn't go into the wild expected to plug a bear.
Brings up an interesting point though, does having "technology" make one go into places they should not?" The same could be said for climbing with gear ...
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Would anyone feel any differently if a cougar ambushed you on a hike.
I carry pepper spray….and watch behind when approaching peaks at night. I have a small gun but can’t hit anything with it…..in the frenzy of a genuine animal attack, I’m amazed people can actually hit an animal’s skull, firing a handgun.
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