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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Apr 29, 2010 - 02:58pm PT
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More hot nun shots for Pate....check yer email bro.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 29, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
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George Clinton understood the principle without ever going climbing...
"In a relationship, you only have one chance to make a first impression."
If you fall off climbing on sight, that first chance is over. "Why" is not relevant. Sometimes it is just bad luck. More often it is some subtle lack of awareness...
Anyway sh*t happens and it's best laughed off. I've had phases where I took things too seriously and that got in my way.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 29, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
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Mucci,
A topo is prior knowledge, so by your definition the only onsites possible are FA's. I don't think that's what you mean, and it's certainly not what is generally accepted as the definition.
Go to the valley this weekend...What's up with that mud climbing!
kev
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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Apr 29, 2010 - 03:47pm PT
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"...and causes you to fall, does it still count as an onsight if you get back on the rock and complete the route?"
No...
Your ascent is invalid
(don't believe me? Check with the French!!!)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 29, 2010 - 03:52pm PT
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Salad,
don't hate me cuz I'm not as strong as youz.
;)
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Apr 29, 2010 - 04:23pm PT
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No kev-
Taken from wikapedia:
"On-sight climbing means to attempt a rock climbing route for the first time without inspection or any form of "beta" (such as route description, watching others climb it, etc.)."
So yes, most of my "onsights" were of new routes where i lead the pitch all free.
It is kinda like onsighting whilst following the roper book though :)
Mucci
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 29, 2010 - 05:21pm PT
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Mucciman,
If it's from wakapedia it must be true!
Wait, since roper sometimes provides misdirection isn't using it kinda an uber-onsight?
GO TO THE VALLEY THIS WEEKEND DUDE!
kev
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Edge
Trad climber
New Durham, NH
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Apr 29, 2010 - 05:24pm PT
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Broken holds are God's way of giving you something to throw at boulderers.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 29, 2010 - 05:25pm PT
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I think if a climber uses a normal guidebook to locate and sort out where a route goes, or someone takes them to it and says, “here, it goes up that way,” and then this climber leads it clean first try with no other information but their own awareness, skills and good judgment, that qualifies as an on sight. Good luck is cool too…
Here’s an example from my own experience. After Levy recommended the route enthusiastically, I went up to try the .11d aręte Split Personality, in Josh. I stepped on and off the start several times, never falling, and finally clipped the first bolt. Then without weighting the rope I reversed the moves back to the deck (Guyzo was belayin’ so you know the rope was loose.) So far so good. Then I went for it and climbed the route to the top all clean as a whistle. There is one good rest below the top out crux. I committed to the final moves, reached blindly over the top and F*CK, my hand came down on a cluster of slings through the anchor bolts, hidden from view just over the top. They were in my hands and that was the end of a quality on sight attempt.
I removed the slings, descended by another rap anchor on the side and led through on my hung draws. After losing the on sight I was super pissed for about an hour, ‘till I was climbing again. What a fun day! A little edge to it with the frustration, but lots of serious fun.
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scuffy b
climber
Where only the cracks are dry
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Apr 29, 2010 - 05:41pm PT
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Give up, Kev.
Mucci's got you fully outgunned on this one.
The only way to prevent somebody's poo-pooing your accomplishment is to
keep mum about it.
If YOU think studying a topo doesn't spoil the on sight, that's OK, but as
soon as you open your mouth somebody like Mucci (friends are particularly
good at deflations) will gladly point out how full of bull you are.
Are you healthy yet?
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climbrunride
Sport climber
Purgatory
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Apr 29, 2010 - 05:47pm PT
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THC is a good little route that used to rarely get done BITD. Glad people are getting on it now. Thanks for your 'gardening' work.
BTW, ever climb Three To Get Ready? It's my own favorite over on the left side of Shadow.
Oh, back to the original question and my own useless opinion. No onsight on the successful lead. But great style points for getting right back on the thing and nailing it!
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 29, 2010 - 05:51pm PT
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scuffy,
Not healthy but better-ish. I got a cortizone shot 2 weeks ago. It has helped but it's not 100%. You headed up to the ditch this weekend?
kev
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Apr 29, 2010 - 05:52pm PT
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If you fell during the onsight attempt for any reason, you failed to onsight the climb.
No big deal but you must at least be honest about what you did. You fell & that denied you of the onsight attempt.
Simple to understand.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 29, 2010 - 06:12pm PT
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Anyway, I got back on the rock and finished the climb...does that still count as an onsight?
Unless you lowered back to the start, pulled your cord did it in a go it doesn't even qualify as lead.
Here's the thing. Why do you care? If it's about your rep as a climber, that's fine. If it's more personal, your own sense of satisfaction, that's good too. Whatever the reason, you'll be more fully rewarded by holding yourself to the higher standard. Being honest, fundamentaly honest, with yourself and those whose respect you value will serve you well over the years.
Hey I'm glad no one got hurt. Those weird unexpected falls with flying rocks can be scary...
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BlueGuy84
climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2010 - 08:02pm PT
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Ksolem...you're right...why should I care? I successfully climbed the route right? A hold broke and that was just God's way of saying, "Try it again without using that hold. There's something else to learn here."
If someone else had a similar experience, I'd give them onsight credit. Why? Because they didn't know anything about the route and ascended it cleany despite repeating a small section due to fall occuring b/c of an unforseen event not due to any lack of climbing ability or awareness.
Calling it not a lead? Sure it was a lead...a lead with fall. It wasn't a top-rope or free solo...what else could it be?
I think the definition of the term onsight should be expanded to include some exceptions that are unpreventable...like 'onsight insurance.' What if some hard person was leading a route, got struck by lightning and fell, somehow regained composure and strength, then finished the route. Naaahh Ahhhhh neener neener neeeeener...no onsight for him hahaha
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 29, 2010 - 09:05pm PT
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It has zero to do with "na na neener neener." It's about your personal standards.
And I backed off once 'cause of lightning. Came back and did it. On sight? Hell no.
Re define "on sight flash" to include falls and retreats deemed not your fault?
Whatever.
My choice for a long time has been this: If the words come out of my mouth "I did [insert route name here]" then you can be sure I led it without falling or dangling. Maybe on sight, maybe with some tries, maybe with rehearsal or whatever but regardless of the style the finished product was a clean lead bottom to top, or on multipitch both partners clean, swinging leads and following. Whatever the route, ask me and I'll tell you how it came down.
Yeah I have a lot fewer routes checked off as a result, but each check mark really stands for something.
Don't you think you're better off pushing your onsight level than lowering the bar for on sight?
How about if a ski racer clips a gate after hitting a random patch of ice?
Do you call back a hockey goal if the opposing goalie's stick breaks?
I don't care one way or the other about how you choose to enjoy climbing as long as you don't do really boneheaded stuff, but since you raised the question on this forum it must mean something to you, so there's my .02.
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BlueGuy84
climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2010 - 01:37am PT
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Ksolem...you have a great point. It is about personal standards. I think it's very true to keep those standards high as well. Thanks for reminding me of that. I personally feel like I climbed the route successfully despite the fall. It really doesn't disappoint me at all that I fell for that reason...however your point now makes me want to go do it again sans fall.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 30, 2010 - 05:12pm PT
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DMT, the pic is of Salad. :)
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 30, 2010 - 05:30pm PT
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Damn am I glad something like that didn't happen early in my career. I would have been so emotionally distraught I would have given up the game.
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Prod
Trad climber
Dodge Sprinter Dreaming
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Apr 30, 2010 - 06:41pm PT
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I give the post award to Pate and Prod.
Thanks Rox.
Prod.
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