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Greg Barnes
climber
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Apr 22, 2010 - 05:23pm PT
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Thanks for all the good info. I am definitely leaning towards the Rocpec. I read a review whose author was concerned about the durability. I sounds like its not an issue though. Right? Has anyone beat one to death? Sounds like Tork and mucci broke one. I "broke" my main one, which was from when they first came out. I noticed that the spring was beginning to pop out of the collet head - after 400 bolts or so in granite (and maybe 50 in sandstone). Still worked fine, it just looked like it was about to break, so sent it back to Petzl for them to check out. Never had any problems with other Rocpecs, and that one was getting really beat up (mushroomed head, etc).
The Hurricanes are nice...but it's also really nice to be able to switch bits super easily on lead with the Rocpec.
Short 3/8" SDS bits would be very nice - if anyone ever finds any, post up about them!
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Apr 22, 2010 - 05:33pm PT
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Used to be able to get 10mm bits from Hilti that were short. Four inches or so. Wicked spendy. REI used to sell them, got some on closeout a few years ago. Use them a few times and they'd probably work ok for 3/8" powerbolts...(wear that diamter down a tad).
I've made short bits for the Rocpec by just cutting off the carbide tip and down the shaft a ways, then sharpening the remaining nub. Good for really soft sandstone, for a "just in case" type emergency bolt kit. Works ok. Wouldn't work at all for harder rock, methinks.
Snugged into the drill holder through the side of the Petzl handle, a 4" bit and drill is a really small package.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Apr 22, 2010 - 05:40pm PT
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Yeah Brian, I know that Hilti deal - it actually works fine for 5-piece (Power-bolts) if you drill good holes, since they are designed for 3/8" or 10mm. Most bolts don't have such a wide tolerance (it's even printed on the side of the sleeve - 3/8" and 10mm both).
And we had a few short 10mm SDS bits from Europe years ago, but they were junk - the carbide tips shattered on the first bolt or two. Think I got them from Tom who got them from Valerio so maybe they were Italian made? Still have one unused one in the oddities pile...
Another advantage of the Hurricane and HSS bits, you can make them nice and short (or they will wear down to nice and short...).
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Apr 22, 2010 - 05:45pm PT
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i was in the crawlspace of my father's house a few years back.
we were installing rigid insullation under the main floor.
my brother and dad and i were each holding a corner of the sheet,
and god musta been holding the lonely corner..
we're grunting and shoving as norwegians do well, but the fuker won't seat!
it's heavy and no one, not even god, wants to set down this thing...
so i start bashing it into place with my forehead. my will has a go at the this beast, coeficient of static friction be afraid!
then my brother and father follow suit.
it seats, and we've all fiberglass bits in our eyes so finally us stubborn fukers can cry!
moral here is don't use your head on the dumb side of your hand drill?
seeing as how yer dutch.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
CA
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Apr 22, 2010 - 05:46pm PT
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dave gratten and sons, Irwindale CA
your price depends on your volume, and if you can get an account with your own resale number. they have t nuts too, boxes of 100 only, don't go here thinking to pick up just a few, i think they have a 100 dollar mimimum,
edit, but if you want to buy stainless 1/2 x 3 1/2 for the bomb belay stance in granite, or, if you are sick like me 1/2 by 6" for sandstone,
you can get them here.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Apr 22, 2010 - 06:05pm PT
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I want to think I've seen Bosch 10mm by 110mm SDS bits out there. Usually UK or Europe.
Wonder if a Bosch dealer could order them in?
Hmmm...be nice to have some inexpensive shorties...
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Apr 22, 2010 - 06:14pm PT
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I have a bit that came with the pika drill, it is a 1/4 x4" sds bit.
It is exactly the size we are all looking for in a 3/8ths.
My thought is if they produce a 1/4 inch SDS that is short, They must make a 3/8ths in the same size?
Not that far of a stretch in my mind. I have been to the depths of the web, revealing nothing but I will find those shorties before I die!
I have no idea what brand the bit that comes with the pika drill is, but if anyone knows please post up.
Mucci
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Apr 22, 2010 - 06:33pm PT
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1/4" x 4" SDS is a standard size - Powers makes them for instance. No 3/8" x 4"...
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Apr 22, 2010 - 06:42pm PT
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DAMNIT GREG!!!!!
Abandoning the search immediately.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Apr 22, 2010 - 06:48pm PT
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Mucci, you have a Hurricane now. Why do you need dull shorties? Just put a sharp shorty in the thing and call it good.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Apr 22, 2010 - 07:25pm PT
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Ok, Ok......
A little hasty but I had not seen the powers website, thus proving I never made it to the deep end of the web!
Minerals- I took all of your info (and others) and am settin up the HSS rack for the hurricane!
Never drilled a hole so fast in my life...
Makes the effort with carbide seem like a 3 hour jerkfest.
Some great info in this and the stance drilling thread.
Thanks for all of the info all!
Mucci
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Apr 22, 2010 - 11:36pm PT
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Cool, Mucci! Glad that is working out for you so far. I’m curious to hear more as you get more use out of your Hurricane. It makes me psyched when I hear that someone gives the HSS bit system a chance and then “sees the light.”
One other thing to mention about 25/64” HSS (High-Speed Steel) drill bits…
25/64” is 1/64” larger in diameter than 3/8” (obviously). Many of the readily available HSS bits (Home Depot, etc.) are not a constant diameter. Drill bits larger than 3/8” are stepped-down to 3/8” at the bottom of the shank so that the bit will fit into a standard 3/8” drill chuck. The problem with these stepped-down bits is that the collet in the Hurricane is not in full contact with the bit – it only grips the larger portion (25/64”) of the drill bit. Depending on the drill bit manufacturer and the length of the step-down, the collet with have more or less contact with the drill bit. Although I have not had any problems yet with these stepped-down bits, it seems that cranking the collet onto an uneven shank will accelerate collet wear and tear and it might eventually break. But so far, so good.
You can look for constant diameter 25/64” bits with a little searching – I recommend these bits over the stepped-down bits if you can find them.
Try a variety of different bit manufacturers (if you can find a variety) to see which ones are more durable/less likely to break and try to find the USA-made bits or those of equivalent quality. I’ve got some “Made in China” bits that don’t seem to be too bad. If you want to set yourself up with a bunch of bits, I’d go with a machine tool supply company, for quality, price, and availability. Made in USA!!!
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Dutch
Trad climber
pdx
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2010 - 01:46pm PT
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One more question. Where do you guys recommend getting 3/8" and 1/2" bits? Any particular brands?? What is the deal with Petzl 10 and 12mm bits costing almost $50ea???? Ouch!
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Apr 23, 2010 - 01:56pm PT
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SDS bits are sold in a lot of hardware stores - if you only need a couple, just make sure they are made in Germany and you should be fine.
If you need 12mm bits (for Fixe Triplex, Petzl Long-lifes, etc), get the bits from FixeUSA, they aren't cheap but they are cheaper.
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Tim Camuti
Trad climber
CA
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Feb 27, 2012 - 11:42pm PT
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Long time dead thread, but I found this mention of a shorty (4") SDS drill bit by Bosch
Carbide Tipped SDS Shank Drill Bits, 3 8"x4" SDS
3/8x4 sds plus drill bit Carbide-tipped drill bit head is harder and more resistant to extreme loads 4-flute design for fast dust removal For use in drills requiring SDS-plus shanks 3/8? x 4? x 6?
Bosch #HC2061 3/8x4 SDS Hammer Bit
Does this look like everyone's holy grail, or is this incorrect?
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Feb 28, 2012 - 12:31am PT
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That's a 6" bit.
4" is the "useable" portion- i.e. you can drill a 4" deep hole with it.
6" is the shortest length made for 3/8" SDS. There's just not enough construction demand for 3/8" that short.
If you want short, go with HSS.
Banquo has a cool homemade shorty HSS bit holder. As short as I've ever seen out there. Maybe he'll post a pic
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Feb 28, 2012 - 02:37am PT
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Minerals,
what's the reasoning behind using 25/64" HSS bits instead of 3/8" HSS bits. Am I missing something here?
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mctwisted
Trad climber
e.p.
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Feb 28, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
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bhilden
a 3/8" bit hss bit makes a hole that is typically to tight for a 3/8" expansion bolt, you have to beat them so hard they become damaged in order to get it in the hole. a 3/8" sds bit is actually measuring, with a micrometer, at .395. the hss 25/64" bit is .39 (milwaukie), and a 3/8" hss is down to .375 (to small)
so in other words while the bolt is called 3/8" the expansion part requires a larger hole. a five piece powers cone is .415, and a 3/8" stainless wedge bolt sleeve (where the dimples are) is even bigger than that, depending on the brand
the milwaulkie brand 25/64 are good and available at home depot or amazon, in packs of 6
if your drilling out a 1/4" hole for some reason like fixing an old anchor use the sds as they dont bind as much as hss
p.s. i learned all this stuff from minerals
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Feb 28, 2012 - 02:29pm PT
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Jeeeeeeeze, McD…. Looks like I didn’t need to just type this afterall……….. :)
“what's the reasoning behind using 25/64" HSS bits instead of 3/8" HSS bits.”
A hole drilled in granite with a 3/8” HSS bit is too tight for 5-piece and wedge bolts and the bolts will require excessive hammering just to seat them into the hole. This excessive hammering is not good for the bolts and may cause the bolts to deform. You can tell when someone has placed a 5-piece bolt into a hole that is too tight because the hex head is beat up and it doesn’t look pretty.
The carbide tip on a 3/8” SDS bit is actually a little bigger than 3/8”. I don’t have one handy to mic, but I believe Brian in SLC has posted the numbers before, and others might be able to chime in on this.
I’m not sure about softer rock types, but a diameter of 25/64” is necessary when drilling with HSS bits in solid granite (i.e. Yosemite). The same is true when placing 1/4” buttonheads – the buttonhead won’t go into a hole drilled with a 1/4” HSS bit without significantly cratering the rock and bending the bolt. 17/64” HSS bits should be used when placing 1/4” buttonheads in solid granite.
Let’s see the Banquo drill holder!!!
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