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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 10, 2010 - 03:13am PT
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Good work, Jesse. Thanks for letting us know and answering all the questions!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 10, 2010 - 03:25am PT
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The superintendent of any park has the authority to close areas for resource protection regardless of what needs protecting
Thx Jesse for posting up. Can you clarify a bit, the quote above I grabbed from your post? The bold is my emphasis.
I don't think that is true policy the way it's stated, is it? As stated it's draconian in that it overreaches. For example, we can't say that a toad in the tuolumne drainage needs protection east of half dome thru a closure of the 140 canyon below the junction of 120 without a causal nexus. That would be preposterous, and I'd suggest illegal.
can you draw that part out a bit so folks understand what you mean by the Superintendent's authority to protect park resources?
cheers,
M
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martygarrison
Trad climber
The Great North these days......
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Apr 10, 2010 - 09:01am PT
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I agree with Jesse and the NPS on this one. Seems some of us are acting a little petulant. Pleaty of walls to climb and seems prudent to error on the side of caution here. Let's not forget it was humans in the first place that brought this species to an endangered state.
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R.B.
climber
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Apr 10, 2010 - 10:07pm PT
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Jesse,
Thank you for your confessional. I have to admit that I have been angry in the past about peregrin closures in general. So I was more ranting against the loss of the climbing freedom, rather than looking at the big picture.
We all can acknowledge that we share this planet with other species, and as human population expands, creating demands on existing as well as pristine resources, that often the animals (and plants) may lose out.
With all that said, I understand the mission of the NPS and the legacy to be left for the future. I do wonder about, as you said 8 nesting pairs in the park.
Has there been any studies that have estimated what the acreage (or sq. mi.) that a typical Nesting Pair inhabits? I ask only because I have seen how territorial they can be ... and only wonder if they would drive off other potential nesting pairs if they got "too close."
As with any science, biology is lot of observation. It would be great if more funding could come to truely do controlled studies and get a good scientific basis for creating public policy that affects the human/wildlife interface.
I did not take your postings, personally, as I could infer how passionate you are about the birds. We all want them to succeed!
Someday, I am sure, we will cross paths, and I would like to say we could be friends.
Peace on, RB
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 10, 2010 - 10:13pm PT
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"We all can acknowledge that we share this planet with other species, ..."
So ..... we protect this nice flying bird.
On the other side of the coin we slaughter millions of animals & birds every year for sense gratification of the tongue.
We maintain huge industrialized slaughterhouses.
Hypocrisy ..........
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R.B.
climber
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Apr 10, 2010 - 10:57pm PT
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Yes Werner,
Hypocritical ...
I couldn't argue with your reasoning on that ...
We save the little birdies ... at the expense of our climbing freedom due to an over reaching public policy. Ahhh what else is new?
As far as "Allowing climbing on the first 5 pitches" thing ... has anyone ever thought about the fact that this closed section of El Cap is so overhanging that to descend off the top of those routes would probably require a spool of rope ... or even worse ... down leading.
I still affirm that Closing from PO wall to AO wall would probably not be a big deal for 4 months ... but what's next??? closing the wall because there is an endangered silverfish in the cracks. Or how about the 12" rats?
Just spooling here.
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2010 - 12:23am PT
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The superintendent of any park has the authority to close areas for resource protection regardless of what needs protecting
Mungeclimber here is my clarification. I hope it helps.
In Yosemite we have laws that protect all wildlife. For example, bears are one of the signature species of the park and they grab a lot of attention. When we properly store our food we are protecting the bears. We have specific regulations in the park on how we are supposed to store our food. All of these park specific laws are listed in our Superintendent's Compendium.
In Yosemite the superintendent's compendium has traditionally allowed for climbers to have special privileges, such as the ability to hand drill holes in granite and install bolts, to spend the night in wilderness without a permit, to hang our food from the wall before we start a climb (the rest of park visitors must use bear resistant canisters). However, we also have to accept the peregrine nesting area closures.
When the superintendent has a justifiable reason to close an area either for visitor or resource protection he/she can do so. Closures are rare, and usually have to do with protecting visitors from hazards such as floods, rockfalls, etc. Sometimes we close certain wilderness campsites for restoration or alpine meadows from grazing to protect the Yosemite Toad. As you alluded, closures must be justifiable.
In this case a lot of you feel like this closure is not reasonable. For the 4-5 of you so far that feel that way you may want to write a comment letter to the superintendent.
The Park address is:
P.O. Box 577
Yosemite, CA 95389
Jesse
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:28am PT
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Thx Jesse!
Spot on.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Green Cove slabbage BITD!
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:30am PT
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I will personally deliver caviar and swift sashimi to the birds if they'd just move onto the Sheep Ranch or wherever and leave the Rostrum alone.
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2010 - 12:34am PT
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I went out to Rancheria Falls today with my wife Megan and friend Naomi. We were hanging out in front of Hetchy Dome checking out some of the sweet lines and eating lunch when we saw a huge bird soaring in the distance. My first thought was that it was a turkey vulture as they are so common, and the wing shape seemed similar. As it flew closer over the reservoir in front of us we saw that it was unmistakably a bald eagle.
We barely had enough time to admire this amazing bird when a peregrine shot out from somewhere behind us around the vicinity of Hetchy Dome. The peregrine raced straight at the eagle talons out-stretched and actually made contact. The peregrine continued to hassle the bald eagle, but the eagle seemed to want nothing of a fight and glided on down the valley, and the peregrine flew back.
I've really never seen anything like that. Aerial antics by peregrines--yes often, but attacking a bird three times its size, and winning, was something else.
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Gene
Social climber
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:56am PT
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JesseM,
For clarification purposes, the out-of-bounds routes, as shown in the McTopo guide, are (1) South Seas (2) Pacific Ocean Wall (3) Sea of Dreams (4) North America Wall (5) Wyoming Sheep Ranch (6) Atlantic Ocean Wall (7) Iron Hawk and (8) Native Son.
Am I close on the closed?
g
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Green Cove slabbage BITD!
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Apr 11, 2010 - 01:11am PT
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If you only count the ones in the McTopo guide, yes.
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2010 - 01:35am PT
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Yes those are the ones in the Supertopo Big Walls Book.
Also included are; Everyman for Himself, Nightmare on California Street, Continental Drift, El Nino, Heavy Metal and Tinker Toys, New Jersey Turnpike, Heartland, and Gulf Stream. I might have missed a couple of the new ones.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Apr 11, 2010 - 01:42am PT
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It's "Native Son" Jesse.
If climbers were bothering the falcons than they could just fly somewhere else. I agree with not climbing through their eyrie but the NPS perimeters are ridiculous.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, but you work for the man so I guess you win.
If you really want to protect the wildlife in the valley you would ban tourons that feed the poor squirrels.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:26am PT
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Gotta love the Germans
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okie
Trad climber
San Leandro, Ca
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Apr 11, 2010 - 11:57am PT
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Sounds like this falcon thing has gotten to be a fetish for some people. Hours spent staring at them through binos...
Now that they are OFF the endangered list...what do they taste like? Perhaps with a nice chianti and some fava beans?
So the park has the authority to close a public resource to protect any fetish object they wish?
My crack team of lawyers has checked the language and they assure me the Notrh America Wall is open. The closure affects the North American Wall.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:18pm PT
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They might have closed off too many routes but so what? There's over 100 lines on El Cap. Get over it.
However, I read this: "These Peregrine Closures throughout the Nation in the past ten years or so have become so vague and seem to be some kind of justification for some Gov't Grant."
Is that the case here? Is the closure tied to a grant of ANY kind? In other words, is there money, and people's jobs, involved in this affair that we are not hearing about?
If money is in the equation in any way the arguments become totally different. I hope this case is "clean," but would be interested in hearing because the ability of us humans to pull shenanagans is limitless.
JL
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:20pm PT
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Good job Jesse. That bald eagle encounter story was awesome too. Peregrines are so bad ass!
Great post Coz. Respect!
It's not hypocritical to protect an endangered species or one that is still protected because it was endangered vs. other animals. As I've posted here many times endangered species are the "canary in a coal mine" that shows if an ecosystem is healthy. It's the easiest most efficient way to protect a natural system. Of course people's emotions are involved so animals with "charisma" like falcons attract more attention and protection, but it's not about saving a falcon or a spotted owl or a delta smelt it's about saving the minimum amount of acceptable habitat to maintain the natural world. There are millions of chickens you don't need to protect them. Yes killing is killing but there are even more important reasons to protect entire species and habitats vs. saving individual animals.
This closure means people can't climb certain routes for a certain time. Not a big sacrifice to make to allow these majestic animals to breed and survive.
And besides when I'm reincarnated I'm coming back as a Peregrine and I'll be nesting on El Cap.
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10b4me
Ice climber
Ice Caves at the Sads
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:26pm PT
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So ..... we protect this nice flying bird.
On the other side of the coin we slaughter millions of animals & birds every year for sense gratification of the tongue.
We maintain huge industrialized slaughterhouses.
Hypocrisy ..........
so true Werner
Bottom line I think climbing is not a God given right, we should respect the natural world and try to live in harmony with it's denizens. Not climbing a section of cliff, for the time their chicks are maturing seems like a fair compromise.
right on Coz
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2010 - 02:29pm PT
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Thanks Coz, for the words of respect and compassion for the peregrines. I hope it reminds other readers of this forum that this is not about a bureaucratic attempt to limit recreational opportunites, but rather an attempt to continue to protect the peregrine falcon, period. The peregrine is still a rare bird, and its beauty, aerial mastery, and speed are all attributes that draw our inspiration. The stories I read here from many of you, even from those who respectfully disagree with the extent of the closure, are personally memorable, almost magical experiences.
I've also had intense experiences of climbing into an previously unknown peregrine nesting area. Before I high-tailed it out of there, leaving gear and pride behind, the peregrine repeatedly dove at me screaming, and then perched about 20' above me turned its 'hind end towards me and shat in my general direction...I was already placing my bail anchor. This was in "Panther Town" in North Carolina, Jeff Achey et co, had recently put up this sweet roof crack rail pitch that hadn't seen a second ascent.
Largo, the single seasonal employee (no more than 6 months) that has been hired to help with peregrine monitoring and surveying in Yosemite would normally cost the taxpayer about $25,000. However, as is often the case with positions that are not deemed critical in the NPS, we don't have base funding from congress for her position. Last year the late (and great) Jeff Maurer submitted and was awarded a grant from the Yosemite Fund to more thoroughly conduct the peregrine survey. This year, at least partially out of out of generous donations from family and friends to his memorial fund, we are able to continue the monitoring.
Thanks for the words of support guys.
Jesse
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