Half Dome Day Use Permits

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Elcapinyoazz

Social climber

Redlands

Jan 29, 2010 - 01:45pm PT

Leave what ain't broke alone and stop trying to find every possible excuse to expand your bureacracy by another FTE while placing yet another petty demand on a public that comes to the resource precisely to escape the petty ratrace paperwork crap that fills their everyday lives.

And I ask a fundamental question: How would this permit system have prevented ANY deaths or injuries on the cables? Seriously?

AFAIK, the vast majority of accidents up there are when the cables are down in the shoulder seasons. The last accident during crowded conditions that I recall was because the girl was totally worked and couldn't keep grasp on the cable. How would an Official Piece of Paper have improved her endurance, grip strength, or eating/drinking?

So again, what purpose does this serve...aside from milking the users so you can add another full time GS-3? Did I say one? I mean at least three, someone to issue them and a couple more for "compliance check patrol duty".

You say the current systems impacts the user experience negatively becuase they may have to wait at the base. What in the hell kind of "impacts to the user experience" do you think making people jump through bureaucratic hoops to get permits produces, a positive one?

So before, you might have to sit around at the base of the cables for up to an hour, enjoying the view and recharging for the final push to the top. Now you get to schedule a permit ahead, go pay for it and get it...now how much time will that take in total? About the same time you'd have spent waiting for your turn on the cables if there was no permit system. I'd rather be chilling on the side of Half Dome for an hour than standing in lines and filling out forms for the same amount of time.

Bad policy, which accomplishes exactly nothing except confusing and angering your userbase. But you get that extra GS-3 position. Priorities, I guess. All IMO, of course.

Jerry Dodrill

climber

Sebastopol, CA

Jan 29, 2010 - 01:50pm PT

Jesse,
The points are all valid, even if inconvenient. I mean, who here wants to join the herd anyway?

Is there a limit to how many permits one can attain during a season?

Binks

Social climber

Jan 29, 2010 - 01:52pm PT

I've been up to there three times only from climbing though (RNWF and Snake Dike x2). I have no desire to climb up the cables. Wonder if this plan is realistic though.

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Jan 29, 2010 - 01:54pm PT

Now that you have got me all woken up and started, Jesse, I am pondering (or "preparing" as you say) the concept of a mid-cable chalet. It would not only service as a safety landing so someone could not just bowl right down the sucker full-length taking out everyone below him, but with food service and restrooms along with the spectacular vantage point, we could kick the experience up a notch with this Chalet. I presume it would be a "Swiss" chalet too. Maybe some products only available there as well, such as Half Dome Chocolate, t-shirts that Ihateplastic could put out, or more sensitively, teas made from Half Dome Lichens.

I take this moment to also remind everyone that none other than Ansel Adams was in fact a vigorous proponent of a cable tram from the Valley floor to the top of Sentinel, arguing that the visual experience would be so important and the accessibility so special that it should just be given the go-ahead. Fun, isn't it. This was back in the early 1970's. I would look at this curiously owlish man sitting in line at the Four Seasons Restaurant and quietly wonder what the hell happened to him, knowing his stance on this.

Another concept might be a turnstile such as we have on subway lines, but ours would only be set to allow passage of 400 per day up. It would also obviously form a nice snow-fence for winter time as well.

Perhaps another approach might be to establish a water slide on the sucker as some of the crowding is very much due to the overly laborious descenders, picking away at the problem for hours in utter horror while bolder types are hung up behind them. A slide would not not be for the faint of heart and would naturally dissuade many from beginning at all and from clogging up the facility since it would be the only way down. Obviously we could charge too. I suspect it would mostly be youngster attempting it though.

Lastly, surrealists (and I have to think Nihilists and Fatalists too) will undoubtedly be proposing that the cables only work upwards; there would be no "downwards".

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Jan 29, 2010 - 01:59pm PT

I wonder how many permits are going to go unused. You get it in advance. You get sick, or you overwork yourself the day before and decide not to hike it. Kind of like the problems we have with empty campsites. Many people don't bother canceling because it is a bigger chore to cancel then the refund is worth.

Chaz makes a good point about weather. If we don't do it today, we might not ever get to do it, so says the tourist on vacation from overseas.

Then again, if I was on vacation from overseas, I would just pretend I didn't speaky the english and go on whatever day looked good to me.

Put up a third cable and have an up lane and a down lane. Problem solved for many years to come.

Brock

Trad climber

RENO, NV

Jan 29, 2010 - 02:01pm PT

Just put a big fancy kiosk with big neon lights, food stand, and big generator making all sorts of noise right at the base of the cables and charge $100 per person.

Idiots.

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber

Redlands

Jan 29, 2010 - 02:02pm PT

Put up a third cable and have an up lane and a down lane. Problem solved for many years to come.

Moosie for the Win.

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Jan 29, 2010 - 02:07pm PT

NO you are all missing the best idea. I suddenly realize: a rope tow or poma lift up the sucker, right on the granite

Studly

Trad climber

Jan 29, 2010 - 02:08pm PT

I think they are just trying to minimize the number of people that get taken out when someone lets go and takes the elevator....
if anything this should improve our experience as climbers and make getting down the cables allot smoother, faster, and safer. It does make sense if we all stop being so reactionary, and realize we are not being regulated.

Captain...or Skully

Social climber

You wanted to!

Jan 29, 2010 - 02:34pm PT

Jesse,

These people are going into a wilderness environment, a few should be expected to perish.

..........I concur with Fatty's above statement.
Now we just need this statement put on the sign at the trailhead.

Captain...or Skully

Social climber

You wanted to!

Jan 29, 2010 - 02:45pm PT

Pate, it's free in the wee hours. For now.......

Floyd Hayes

Trad climber

Hidden Valley Lake, CA

Jan 29, 2010 - 02:53pm PT

I support the NPS plan. If there were no park entrance fees and camping within the park was free and unregulated, the park would be much more overrun with people--and much less enjoyable. I don't object to smaller crowds on Half Dome, even if costs me a mere $1.50. Adequately protecting the environment for the benefit of others, including future generations, requires some individual sacrifice, which I am willing to make.

Minerals

Social climber

The Deli

Jan 29, 2010 - 02:57pm PT

More stupid Band-Aids… Duh……….

“Adequately protecting the environment for the benefit of others, including future generations, requires some individual sacrifice…”

Yeah, tell that to all of the breeders! Simply put, there are waaaaaay too many people on this planet.

We need more earthquakes. Seriously.

bmacd

Trad climber

Beautiful British Columbia

Jan 29, 2010 - 03:09pm PT

Moose has the solution, build a second set of cables, one for going up, and one for going down traffic.

Permitting usage just introduces more logistics problems for park users while completely avoiding any sort of solution.

So its lousy weather and your permit is for that day only. You just induced the permit holder to venture out when he or she might not otherwise decide to do so if no permit system existed. You'll probably end up doing more rescues now.

elcap-pics

climber

Crestline CA

Jan 29, 2010 - 03:10pm PT

Moose has it.... more cables... have two sets on the east side and two on the west near Snake Dike. Sweet!
There needs to be a way figured out to get some permits on site.. since there are only going to be 400 a day on the chosen days then there should be ..... say 50 to 100 first come first served tickets. That way you don't have to plan weeks or months in advance if you are willing to take a chance. I see ticket scalping at happy isles in the future.... hey buddy... only $10 for a permit that will save your yosemite trip from bombing!! Dirtbags unite!!!! Free $$$
BTW fees do reduce the number of park users... the poorer folks don't get to come to the parks... good idea, keep the poor and rifraf out of the parks so only middle class and higher can visit. Class discrimination at its best!

Moof

Big Wall climber

A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon

Jan 29, 2010 - 03:11pm PT

I'll add this to the list of reasons I avoid the ditch whenever possible. Personally I think just putting in a kiosk at the base with both cables etiquette, as well a few pictures from the coroners office showing the darwinian consequences would do a far better job.

I gave up going to Whitney due to the retarded permitting process, and now my last little glimmer of desire to ascend the cables is dead as well.

JOEY.F

Social climber

sebastopol

Jan 29, 2010 - 03:26pm PT

Will there be a senior discount?
84 thousand/year? That's a lot of trail beating.
Seems like this is worth a try, but charging 12 bits rings wrong.

Jingy

Social climber

Nowhere

Jan 29, 2010 - 03:30pm PT

not goona effect me.... Not gonna make that hike any time soon, and would not mind if I had to tell park officials what I was intending to do for the day, if I decided to make the trek...

Thanks for the info Jesse!

Good to know

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Jan 29, 2010 - 03:47pm PT

Thanks for the info Jesse.

1. Average of 840 a day, now limited to 400?? That seems like a bigger cut than needed. Maybe 600 is more logical. 440 people a day shut out, that sucks.

2. No first come first serve sucks. Many people will come from around the country to do this hike not knowing about the permit system and will be shut out. You get wilderness permits at Yosemite village for camping, why can't they do permits for hiking too, for like 50 people? Put out a sign when it's sold out.

3. what about the people who get permits and don't show up. 350 people a day?

4. The cables could handle more people if they all didn't show up at the same time. Maybe you should need a permit between 10AM and 5PM, but you're ok if you get there earlier or later.