Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 07:54pm PT
|
Anastasia- So what's your personal take on the Old Testament?
More specifically, how would you answer Roeder if he told you he considered himself a traditional Christian (following Original Christianity circa 100ad) and was doing his best to "live up to" Moses Law? that according to Jesus himself, his work in the New Testament was not to supplant the Old Testament (esp the Books of Moses).
P.S. I know it's a difficult question. But it's worth exploring because this "difficulty" is exactly what's mucking things up in our modernity.
|
|
Anastasia
Mountain climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 08:08pm PT
|
Well... Growing up Greek Orthodox which is one of the oldest sects. Add the fact that we have a few priest in the family. Plus, please note that the oldest copy of the New Testament that our modern day Bible is translated from is located on the monastic island Patmos that is right next to my home island. (We supported their existence for 800 plus years.) *Also note that on Patmos no women or outside visitors were allowed there until the 1950's.
I know a little about christianity...
I would say he is not Christian. Nope...
Also know that the first Christians wouldn't even fight in a war and many were vegetarians. It took Constantine a bit of propaganda to get them to believe that it was alright to fight. Emperor Constantine claimed he saw a cross in a dream, etc. etc. which let him win his battle with Maxentius. He spread this across his subjects which brought him a large amounts of new recruits.
Anastasia
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 08:11pm PT
|
While I disagree with Tiller's late-term abortion practice, that doesn't mean you kill the guy. It wasn't Scott's job to judge the man. That's equally wrong!
These fundamentalists are sick. The ones who go to dead soldiers' funerals and say they deserved it, the ones who say fags should die. It's sickening and they need to be confronted by more reasonable Christians. People like Micronut and Anastasia.
I'm happy to do it too, but I'd probably get agro and start dropping f-bombs on 'em. But I'd be willing to try.
It's totally insensitive what they do in the name of God. God weeps when he's see's this sh#t and says, "Fail!!!".
EDIT: HFCS, anybody who takes the Bible word-for-word literally all the time, I think misses the bigger picture.
You have to keep the Biblical thought in the context of the message it's delivering.
The Bible may say that laying down with another man is wrong, and maybe God smited somebody, doesn't mean that you should go out and 'kill fags'. It just means that they thought it was wrong. It was for God to judge.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 08:16pm PT
|
Anastasia-
Let me see if I have this right.
So you would say someone is not Christian if (a) he believes in the divinity of Jesus of Nazereth, (b) he believes in the Nicene Creed, and (c) he believed in following the books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus to the letter? (e.g., Breaking the Sabbath is punishable by death.)
EDIT: Bluering- and what I'm saying is this difficulty is mucking things up and till we work through it at all levels it won't go away.
EDIT: Sorry about the misspelling Anastasia. It was a slip as I have a background, too, in ancient Greek and "anastasis" is a word.
|
|
Gene
Social climber
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 08:26pm PT
|
HFCS,
Go choke on a shellfish.
At least spell the lady's name correctly.
gm
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 08:35pm PT
|
HFCS, if you are Christian (of most denominations), there are very simple rules to follow. And even if you break the rules, you can be redeemed.
There are, however, some things that are not so easily redeemed. I'm not a Biblical scholar but suicide is one of those things. Murder is another. To murder (killing the innocent) is to take God's power into your own hands. That is wrong and is a tragic sin. It is different than killing, to kill in defense.
The bottom line is that you have to take the whole Bible to understand the context of these laws. You can't take a phrase of a book and exact justice based on that. There's an all encompassing message from the Bible. Take it all in and you'll see.
|
|
Anastasia
Mountain climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 09:00pm PT
|
Nicene Creed was in the 4th century so it isn't within 100 years of Christ. You asked about what a Christian was a 100 years AD and I answered that.
As for what is a "Christian;" the truest definition is from the Bible.
Being a "good Samaritan" (by the way a Samaritan was a worshiper of idols) is being a good Christian. He was more accepted by God than the man who was a Priest/ a man who preached the "word" but didn't help, didn't assist his fellow, and left him to die on the side of the road.
You can claim all affiliations to Christ but... If you don't give kindness, mercy, love, generosity and forgiveness; you missed the boat. I don't care which domination, sect, or version of Bible you read; you sadly missed the whole point and are not "Christian" in the truest sense. Christian is not the name of a religion or of a person. Being Christian is the sacrifice of self for others. It is being unselfish and giving.
AFS
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 09:39pm PT
|
Apparently the maximum sentence is 50 years, effectively a life sentence - assuming that a friendly, "pro-life" governor doesn't commute it. Still, it leaves you wondering. If the usual penalty there for murder - execution - was a possibility, would the "pro-lifers", who are also often vociferously in favour of capital punishment, be in favour of it in this case? Would the "pro-choicers", who are often opposed to capital punishment, oppose it?
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 09:48pm PT
|
Anastasia, Bluering-
Mighty Hiker raises an interesting aside: Are you pro-capital punishment?
|
|
Gene
Social climber
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 09:56pm PT
|
Capital punishment should be banned. Serves no purpose except to excite the rabble.
The unborn are innocent. Most of those who suffer capital punishment are knott.
Just an observation.
g
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 10:11pm PT
|
I do currently support capital punishment in extreme cases. And I'm anti-abortion in most cases, for the reason Gene stated. One is the epitomy of innocence and the other is the opposite.
I don't like seeing people die but in cases where children are raped, brutalized to suffer, and then killed. Yeah, I support capital punishment.
|
|
noshoesnoshirt
climber
Arkansas, I suppose
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 10:25pm PT
|
Derp!
|
|
micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 10:41pm PT
|
Come on guys, it would be foolish to sit here and discuss whether this fella was a Christian or not. Regardless of what he said he believes. When a person's claims and his actions don't jive, action trumps. You are more what you do than what you say or believe.
It is clear that his life did not reflect a changed heart and a life committed to growing near to and emulating Jesus Christ.
Murder is always a sad day no matter who the victim is.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 10:43pm PT
|
This verdict suggests Kansas is modernizing
and faith discipline practice (today by and large still in the form of the religious model) is evolving.
You have an incredibly ignorant and intolerant view of your fellow citizens, (Is it just because they are from flyover country?)
I'd wager a jury from the same region would have reached the same verdict in 1810
|
|
mark miller
Social climber
Reno
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 10:44pm PT
|
Kansas is a little "soft" on 1st degree murder...Put him in Texas....or NV. POS Fundamentalist ignorant....but I stray on Friday nights.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 10:47pm PT
|
Well said, micronut...
|
|
micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 10:49pm PT
|
Just keepin it real Blue.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 11:01pm PT
|
You have an incredibly ignorant...
TGT- I'd take that bet. Let me guess, you're a Christian conservative republican. FYI, I alluded to Kansas for its recent history. Are you up on current affairs...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_evolution_hearings
The fact that this murder trial took place in Kansas-- in large part over conservative religious issues-- made the outcome anything but certain. Given the wide cross-section of juries these days, more than a few of us were holding our breath.
You can bet your best camalot that in 1810-- the year you specified-- Kansans adhered to OT teaching a great deal more than they do today. Tsk.
Yeah, just researched you. You mockingly called Obama the "philosopher king." That speaks volumes. Better a philosopher king than a moose-huntin' queen who thinks humans and dinosaurs coexisted.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2010 - 11:02pm PT
|
Yeah, micronut, you're a better man than myself. I mean that too. Sometimes my anger and patience with people gets the better of me. I do realize that. You seem to maintain a calm that I just can't achieve. I wonder though if my 'deficit' is truly a bad thing. Some people serve different roles in the grand scheme. This kinda struck me personally...
You are more what you do than what you say or believe.
Meaning I truly am an as#@&%e, LOL! But I don't intend to be one, I just say things differently than you, Lynne, or Cragman. It comes from having abandoned my faith for a while. And after returning to it, I see things differently and the mean-spirited nature of certain people as needing a dose of their own medicine.
You have to communicate in their 'language'.
Anyway, I keep trying. I have a ways to go.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2010 - 12:03am PT
|
Alas, too bad the Kansas conservative Christian Board of Education 2005 didn't have this chick for their mentor...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nTnjx-JRzE&feature=sub
Food for Thought: The Christian Church today is no longer "an institution of higher education." This speaks volumes as to (a) why it's under fire and (b) its future.
Long ago, it chose to fight science (in the subjects of how the world works and how life works) rather than adapt to its methods, revelations and story. Bad choice. Kinda like Scott Roeder.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!