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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Jaybro,
"Paul M, do you 'get' Irony, even a little bit?"
edit: Apparently not. It went right over my head.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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It's worth pointing out again how early this piece was. Sociology of sport was still really a novelty--
Guttmann's From Ritual to Record (1978) is often mentioned as the foundational book, and it was still pretty fresh. Donnelly was the editor of one of the early academic journals.
So for me, it was really cool to see this, because I knew Donnelly by reputation in sociology of sport, but had forgotten entirely that he did this stuff.
Tx again to Peter for all the pick and shovel work.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Thanks for the article Peter perhaps I will jump out of the box a bit.
Impossible to even partially catagorize. Bit stuffy for me I am afraid but I do like the quote from L about Donnelly:
"the poster child for having been educated beyond his intelligence."
Oddly enough, today, I came across this letter from Pratt to Roper in 1965 while Roper was in the Army. Provides a rare window into one unique climbing relationship of that era and a glimpse into numerous others by a man who unfortunately rarely opened up to such levels publicly.
As far as whether climbing lead people to form close friendships or not. Simple. Yes and No.
PFC Steve Roper
HQ Company
197th Infantry Brigade
Fort Benning, GA
March 18, 1965
Steve,
It was extremely good to hear from you after all these months. You may be certain that once you are free and with us again, the army will never be mentioned. As you say, there is never any need for the subject to be discussed by those of us who have "served." I know and understand only too well what it is like. So on to other things.
Your letter asked many questions which are important to you and knowing you as I do, I was able to read a great deal between the lines. Some of your questions are easy to answer and I'll start with the least complicated ones. I have been working at Gerry's for one month now. [Steve] Komito is still there but he has only one week left before leaving for California to join Doug Tompkins in The North Face. Gerry's has treated Komito and all others who have worked there like sh#t. And believe me, [Gerry] Cunningham is literally going to pay for this. Every demonstration of pettiness and intolerance on the part of these profit-mongering, vegetized unpeople is going to hurt them where it hurts most—right in their goddamned wallets.
Komito has continued to perform many favors and acts of kindness for me and for many other climbers. Colorado's loss is definitely California's gain. I hope that he will be treated well and will be happy there. He probably isn't fully aware of how many friends he has in the climbing world. I shall remain perhaps another month after he leaves, provided that I will be able to stomach Komito's replacement.
Tex [Boissier] is married and living in Boulder. I have seen him only twice since I've been here so I don't really know how he is, although many people have told me that he is not too happy because his wife makes life miserable for him. [Glen] Denny is back working in Yosemite. He didn't do too much climbing in the Valley last summer but he did have a great trip to South America. [Layton] Kor is as great and nervous as ever. Right now he is making a winter ascent of a route on Longs. He is climbing solo a lot now.
Everyone plans to hit Yosemite this year. Your guide has really sparked a lot of interest in the Valley, as I hoped it would. Climbers from Canada, SLC, Boulder and England are definitely going to arrive this spring.
I shall digress for awhile to slightly less savory subjects just to get them out of the way for more important questions, although right now I imagine that an early out is very important to you. There are three types of early release from active duty. One is the hardship discharge. It is the best because there is no specified time limit for release. A person may get out any time if his application is approved, but it is also the most difficult to obtain since it involves an extremely serious hardship at home (death of father, mother paralyzed type of thing) or serious problems with one's business. This is how [Yvon] Chouinard got out early. However this procedure involves all sorts of supporting documents from family physician, lawyer, accountants, etc., all difficult to forge.
Then there is an early out for enrolling in school. This is the surest way of getting out early but it involves enrolling in college somewhere because the army must have letters from the school accepting your application as well as evidence that you have paid tuition before an early out is granted.
I think the best way is the method I used. I was released ninety-two days early for seasonal employment. As far as the army is concerned, seasonal employment means cotton picking or corn harvesting or lobster fishing or some other such crap. So many guys have tried this ruse to get out early that they started clamping down when I was in. But, if you use some really far out job, seasonal in nature, they think it must be on the level. The weirder the better. I think you could use the same thing I did and have a good chance of getting out in September. I used a completely fictitious climbing school, wrote a letter to my C.O. which stated that I had been accepted as an instructor on condition that I could be released in September—and I got out.
Don't make the mistake of requesting an early out for something like corn harvesting or hay picking or some other type of farm work—the bastards know most of those are phony. But something far out and completely new to them like a climbing school will have a good chance of getting you out. You also have the advantage that there really is a climbing school in California now. I am sure Tompkins will let you use letterhead of the California Mountaineering Guide Service to add authenticity. I can also send along one of the brochures of the climbing school for verification of the school's existence. Then the ass-holes won't even have to bother to check up on it. Let me know when you are ready to start the thing and I'll send all necessary papers. I welcome the chance to screw them in any small way I can.
On to more pleasant things. Last Friday was Komito's last day at Gerry's. He left without shedding a tear. Although I think he would have appreciated some show of gratitude after three-and-a-half years of labor for the "company." He will be in Boulder for one more week and then take off for California. [Eric] Beck, [Mort] Hempel, Mac [Frank Magary] and others are preparing a rousing welcome for him which I hope may alleviate his feelings of sadness upon leaving a place (Boulder) that he loves.
Christ [Chris Fredericks] is down for the weekend to visit his girl. Yes, he has a girl now and is quite happy, even though his mining job at Climax is not too pleasant. While I am on the subject, I would like to deny any rumors or reports that you might have heard about me having a mistress. You should know better than that. There was a girl with whom I spent some time last summer, but she was in no way my mistress, nor could she ever be. I haven't seen her for several months and it is quite likely that I will never see her again. Boulder has been equally fruitless despite the promises of Kor that I would have a woman within three days. For years I've heard Boulder touted as the little Paris of America, but the fact remains that, after all, Boulder is in America, and therefore no different from any other city. The weather has remained miserable now for six weeks. I have been climbing three times since I arrived and probably won't be able to do too much more before I leave in April.
Which brings me to the climbing. The season is going to start like all other seasons. I have to work all summer because I'm broke. Kor has to work. [Royal] Robbins, [Tom] Frost and Chouinard are going to Europe in the early spring, etc., etc. The truth of the matter is that every one of us will be in Yosemite by the middle of April. Robbins, Frost and Chouinard really are going to Europe eventually, but only after they knock off all the climbs they didn't get done last year plus as many new ones as possible. Robbins, [John] Harlin, [Jim] McCarthy and others are going to Kangchangunga (spelling?) this year also. Kor will spend some time in Yosemite and then take off for Canada, Alaska, or Europe. As usual I have plans for the Tetons, Bugaboos and Wind Rivers but will undoubtedly spend another five months in the Valley.
When I was released from the army, I was faced for the first time in seven years with some real and very disturbing doubts about climbing as a way of life. Would I still be able to climb? Would I even have the same feeling for it? My doubts were partly erased by the Tahquitz trip and even further erased by our desert trip. Yet still I would not know until I was back in Yosemite. The questions I asked myself were the same ones you asked me. How long did I think I could go on climbing? Could I accept death in climbing as the final end result? Was I really finding meaning and value in this way of life or was it just an exciting, pseudo-adventurous game from which I derived some degree of self-glorification?
Last summer I found out. Never have I been so completely sure that the life I have been leading and the life I intend to continue to lead is right. Although climbing contains some ass-holes, they can be ignored. I will continue to climb until I am killed or until I am no longer physically capable of doing even the easiest routes. My feeling for the sport has not lessened in the least; if anything I am more enthusiastic than ever and I do not intend to change or modify my basic way of life in the slightest. Since my release I have found climbing even more satisfying and more personally valuable than ever before. Killed climbing? Do you think I would rather die in an automobile wreck or of old age brain rot, or in some ass-hole politician's war? I'm not going to let anything get in my way.
The army did teach me one thing. That doing something you don't want to do, especially when you are forced to do it by something like the army, is the complete negation of my own concept of freedom. As far as I am concerned, freedom has nothing to do with politics. To me, freedom means the right to travel, to participate unmolested in any goddamn activity you want and the freedom to choose your manner of death. I know exactly what I want to do and how I want to do it. There's nothing more to be said. Consider all the really great people you know—Chouinard, Hempel, Frost, Robbins. These are the people who do not change and remain the really sane, decent human beings in the world. As far as I am concerned, the rest are ass-holes, some sort of alien life-forms.
You say you have read Catch-22? I agree wholeheartedly with Yossarian's definition of the enemy: "Anyone who is trying to kill me." Likewise, I feel that my enemy is anyone who would, given the power to do so, attempt to restrict individual liberty and this includes all officials, law officials, army sergeants, communists, Catholics, and HUAC [the House on Un-American Activities Committee]. Of course I'm prejudiced but I cannot imagine a sport other than climbing which offers such a complete and fulfilling expression of individuality. And I will not give it up nor even slow down, not for man, nor woman nor wife nor god. Celine sums it all up beautifully in "Journey to the End of the Night:" "I piss on you all from a considerable height."
I sincerely hope that the army does not change you one whit. The Roper whom I knew should be the Roper who is now and who should remain after the army. Or, to paraphrase the Bible: "As Roper once was, so he should be." I accepted you as you were because I believed that your opinions and outlook were right. If society disagreed with you, society was wrong. The history of mankind is a history of 99.9 percent of the people being wrong. The enlightened few who remain must either be martyred or suffer self-imposed exile. I prefer exile to martyrdom and so I do not choose to mix with people beyond my narrow little circle of climbers and people of similar temperament. It is the world that is insane, not those few harmless individuals whom the world judges as insane. Remember this: we are not ordinary men and so we do not lead common-place lives. What we have chosen to follow is the right way. I am irrevocably committed to that way and every day I spend climbing confirms it. We are all waiting for you, the Valley is waiting, the desert will always be waiting. Hang on. Give those insane, inhuman sons-of-bitches their twenty-one months. If you come out the Roper I once knew, then you have won.
Very sincerely,
Chuck
Chuck Pratt (1939-2000) was one of the main protagonists of Yosemite's Golden Age. In the time that followed the reception of the letter, Colorado regained Komito. Kor completed his ascent on Longs. Robbins, Frost and Chouinard went to Europe. Roper was sent to Vietnam, where he served without distinction. And Pratt remained committed to the end. —Ed.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Thought-pieces like this appeared often on Mountain, Ken Wilson's publication. It was a great magazine and carried on from where Ascent left off. Wilson was amazing also
Minor correction here Peter. Ken took over Mountain Craft (changing it to just Mountain) in 1968, just one year after the first issue of Ascent was published. So he didn't carry on from where Allen and Roper left off, but rather worked simultaneously with them. And yes, he was an amazing guy. A committed climber, family man, and fun to be with.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Oh, there's little doubt that climbing is character building
but that's not necessarily a gud thing; lots of 'characters'
in prison.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Peter
Indeed Ken was a fun person to be with. Intense about everything. You can identify with that I imagine. I spent some time with him in England in 71 and it was a whirlwind tour. Tour off London at 100 mph with the mandatory "chiefs" in the front seat and "squaws in the back". "Can't have me mates seeing it any other way." Mandatory tour of all the climbing pubs. Crazy about the classic BIG American cars of the 50s and 60s. Crazy about politics and as everyone knows crazy about climbing. Excellent photographer, demanding editor and super source for anything and everything about European climbing. HIs knowledge of the American climbing scene was legendary. A turbo charged Roper!
Visited us in Santa Cruz at the old Branciforte house one time, probably around 73, and as to be expected arrived in the largest American car he could rent! Nice group of the local infamous Santa Cruz mommas took care of him and made sure he was comfortable. Loss contact over the years but I still cherish the memories of fun times back then. Was a sad day when Mountain closed the door.
cheers
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2010 - 09:41am PT
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Thanks for the insanely good Pratt letter post, Joe!! I had not seen it; is this a published piece or an item from your personal library?? Wow. Really valuable to us, isn't it!
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Peter
I pulled that out of an old Alpinist years ago. The funny part was just the other day, I was looking at a number of letters I had scanned that Roper had written me while he was in the Army. Very interesting things indeed and I might even be tempted to post several that would pass the ST censor parameters and not invade his private realm. I guess you could call that-published post humorously?
cheers
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2010 - 03:35pm PT
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The fear clearly being here that text by Roper would be so riddled with expletives that most of the pages would be blacked out. (g!!) Or worse, a favorite and much-coddled scanner might die running across such words!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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What great stuff! They just don't write stuff like this any more, what a shame.
I remember the Four Fallacies. One of them was the fallacy that climbing is character building. I believe another one was that climbing is not really dangerous.
OK, here we go:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=TFS7BVUoaHAC&pg=PA235&lpg=PA235&dq=four+fallacies+of+climbing+donnelly&source=bl&ots=OZ67X7DMNL&sig=0cCo5RQ46NHPURoH0_86ncJM20E&hl=en&ei=9rpHS-PnEIK2lAfek5gW&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=four%20fallacies%20of%20climbing%20donnelly&f=false
The other fallacy being that climbing is non-competitive.
Even more interesting is this, he is now on the faculty of my alma mater McMaster University, in Hamilton, Ontario.
Peter Donnelly
School of Physical Education and Athletics, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada L8S 4K1
Evidently this was not so when he wrote the Four Fallacies essays, or I certainly would have bumped into him in MUCCC.
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L
climber
H2O..what the heck is this H2O thing you speak of?
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Excellent letter from Pratt, Guido!
"I piss on you all from a considerable height" cracked me up. I've heard that quote for years...just never knew who owned it.
Thanks for posting it.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Paradise Island
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Feb 24, 2010 - 04:06pm PT
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Thanks so much, Peter, for posting the original article. I'll re-read it sometime when I'm flossing, perhaps. I do know that climbing has helped me to create life-long bonds with, not only my climbing mates, but also with folks with whom I've never climbed. Yet I realize there are climbers who never form lasting bonds and treat their partners like a one-night stand. The full range of relationships is found in the climbing world.
And thanks also, Guido, for posting Chuck's letter to Roper, revealing some of the history of climbing and also the nature of the relationships of some of the climbers.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Feb 24, 2010 - 04:10pm PT
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yea so standing at mortality's property line is stripping.
doing so with a ropemate exposes your most private.
going at it alone, you get blisters.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Feb 24, 2010 - 04:11pm PT
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... cause you do every pitch twice.
and you've to hear your own bitching.
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jstan
climber
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Feb 24, 2010 - 04:42pm PT
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I made two attempts to read the piece and failed both times. After wandering from one
unsubstantiated perception to another for a few cycles I just got the feeling there was little hope
of finding any substance. I do love footnotes, and the piece does have some of those.
I did come on the part about Gunks climbers saying 10's in Yosemite can be done by easterners
who do 9's in the Gunks. Here is some actual data. Limited, but actual data. In the years I was in
the Gunks
1. we did not talk about Yosemite much. We would occasionally drive 6000 miles to get there
but Yosemite was not a frequent topic of conversation any time I was within earshot. (My hearing
is, I would say, average or better.)
2. While there was conversation about difficulty, it generally ran to "How the hell does one get
over that overhang? Is there a secret hold? Numbers really were not the center of our world.
Generally on an easterner's first visit to the Valley they learned the climbing is very different.
More grunting and less swinging. Which is cool. Both can be fun.
I don't want my comments to be seen as other than an attempt to relay data. Mr. Donnelly comes
from an entirely different world and I would expect his contribution to reflect this. While I was in
DC I associated frequently with one Brit, finding his take on the world to be outrageously funny
and perceptive. If Mr. Donnelly had felt free to incorporate more of that in his piece I would have
swallowed it whole and gone looking for more. I would that he had.
On the basic question of the relations between climbers I think the real point is as follows. I said
perhaps a total of two words to Chuck Pratt. That's no relationship. But I would do just about anything for Chuck. Why?
Because the trajectory of his life was absolutely beautiful. Beyond measure.
I think that is the rock upon which the relationships between climbers, and for that matter people
generally, are based.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Feb 24, 2010 - 05:34pm PT
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"Because the trajectory of his life was absolutely beautiful. Beyond measure.
I think that is the rock upon which the relationships between climbers, and for that matter people
generally, are based."
As always Jstan-well spoken!
In reference to Pratt's letter to Roper, and his offer of assistance to provide bona fied evidence of a job offer for early release from the Army here is the brochure he was probably alluding to. The concept, California Mountaineering Guide Service, I believe originated with Tompkins. Short lived- it did poses a stellar cast of individuals: Tompkins, Pratt, Mitchell, Krisjanson and Hempel to keep them all in tune.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Feb 24, 2010 - 07:16pm PT
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Some people think about subjects in life, some people talk about those subjects, and other just live life.
I've lost touch with most of my climbing partners, married one (will be 16 years tomorrow) and sired 3 more. Then again I've lost touch with alot of people and have few close friends.
I can't say that climbing leads to forming close relationships over any other activity, but I can say that sharing climbing experiences with close friends is gud.
I'd also rather hang out with a climber that has a totally different viewpoint on life than someone that has a similar viewpoint (as mine), but no passion for life.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
Will know soon
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Feb 24, 2010 - 10:00pm PT
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Climbing Leads People To Form Close Friendships......Oh Yeah, I have so many grate friends now that were not in my life two years ago. The comraderie, flexibility, craziness, caring and the ability to be able to teach others the craft they love so well is just epic.
My life has changed in a wonderful way and I have only those that cared enough to care and help.....to thank.
Also, Cheers to those that are no longer on this planet but took time to be a friend to someone needing friends and direction. Peace, Love and Joy....lynnie
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 26, 2010 - 06:36pm PT
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The tie-in that binds! LOL
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