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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2009 - 04:53pm PT
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Rgold: Thank you for all the great shots of RR's in use on great routes. I started in outdoor retail in Moscow, Idaho in 1973 and never sold RR's very well. By 1974 EB's were what everyone wanted.
But if you loved your RR's you kept using them. I remember climbing some with Mike Yokel in the late 70's. He had moved from Colorado to teach at WSU and still climbed in his beloved RR's.
What I find interesting is: that Robbins was still advertising RR's in mid-1975. Two issues of Off Belay, June & Aug. have full page ads for RR's.
My outdoor shop sold a lot of hiking boots to students at U of I and WSU and darn few mountaineering boots.
From Galibier we mostly sold the Vercors, although we stocked the Super Guide (or Peuterey when we couldn't get Super-Guides). Other brands we stocked were Lowa, Vasque, Pivetta, Fabiano, and later on Asolo. We all thought Galibier was the best quality boot, but they didn't fit everyone. Worse yet: they didn't look like a "hiking boot" to the average student. The Vasque Hiker was the best selling style to those that wanted the look, and at the time: the worst in fit and quality.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 28, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
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Nice shots, Rich! The RR Yosemites were definitely the most versatile single boot for alpine rock and aid climbing.
I owned a pair of full steel shank Saussois that I bought from Marty Woerner (Sadhana)and they were the cadillac of pure aid boots but horrid for free climbing! I destroyed mine t-stacking while soloing the Turning Point and foolishly gave up on restructuring them.
What ever became of Galibier?
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Nov 28, 2009 - 07:04pm PT
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I appologize for the thread drift, but with the mention of Turning point Steve, any idea how many times that route has been done? Has there been a 2nd (Gerbeding perhaps?) Is there a topo out there?
On Topic this is a cool thread. The first pair of shoes I bought were RR's but they were a free climbing shoe. they had a orange canvas upper with a round leather patch over the ankle. Wish I still had them. I do have an old pair of Vasque free climbing boots though.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 28, 2009 - 07:30pm PT
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Unrepeated...
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2009 - 09:43pm PT
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Steve: What ever became of Galibier? I am having to invent an answer from my own memories----but I think the answer has four parts.
1. Robbins went entirely to clothing in the early 1980's and dropped distributor status for Galibier.
2. Campus fashion was changing and hiking boot sales tanked. My (by then) two stores had sold a bunch of Galibier Vercors, as I suspect many of Royal's other dealers did. Those sales slowed way down with the different campus footwear fashions in the 1980's.
3. The early 1980's recession hurt outdoor retailers, just like everyone else.
4. Italian boot brand Asolo had a high-quality product, an aggressive U.S. sales force, (that was often Chouinard-Patagonia reps)and was grabbing market share.
I don't remember another company picking up the Galibier distributorship.
Anders: Your La Siesta Press/Robbins connection question. I really don't know, but I did find out that La Siesta was a one-boss proprietorship in the Mountain Paraphernalia Era. They specialized in hiking guidebooks. I'm sure they enjoyed their relationship with Royal: printing up all those copies of Basic & Advanced Rockcraft.
However, I could not find any info on Mountain Letters. The name stirs some of my remaining "high altitude destroyed memories"-----but nothing surfaces. I think------maybe-----possibly----Royal may have had a different name for his book distribution business-----and that may be it???
Some more old ads!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 28, 2009 - 10:18pm PT
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I have a copy, too - my father gave it to me. He probably bought it in the early 1960s. Plus a copy of "Belaying the Leader", another great classic - published by the Sierra Club.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2009 - 11:50pm PT
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Early in my climbing career---with no local mentors: my friends and I would try to memorize knots from---Ropes, Knots and Slings for Climbers.
It worked best on a cold winter day (inside a cozy log cabin in the mountains). We would smoke some weed to simulate "high altitude & full conditions" and would practice knots.
Worked like a charm. No doubt still the way to memorize one of the most popular knots: "The sheep crawls over the log, then darts under the log, then returns to the fold"------bingo! When we forgot the harness on climbs: we could still tie into the rope!
Levity aside---some more Robbins ads.
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duncan
climber
London, UK
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Nov 29, 2009 - 04:13am PT
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Great thread. The idea of importing Peck pitons to the USA ... just wrong! Even we Brits. knew they were rubbish.
Steve asked "What ever became of Galibier". In Europe, the market for their main product, Superguides, almost disappeared overnight with the appearance of the white Koflach plastic boots. Leather hiking boots continued to be popular but I’m guessing this was a small part of their sales (certainly was in the UK) and a far more competitive field.
The Richard Pontvert company continues. The French versions of Supertopo-ists can still buy Galibier leather boots, looking much like they did in ’77, but now they mostly make shoes under the Paraboot brand. Quite favoured by French preppies.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2009 - 11:15am PT
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Duncan: Thank you for your post. I had not thought of the "sea change" of plastic boots hitting the mountaineering market. Another sales avenue for Galibier had been Telemark boots. They had two models which sold well in the Rockies in the mid-70's. Asolo took most of that market in short order, with boots that fit better and skied better.
Re. Pate's note about the E-Bay auction for a pair of RR's. They sold for $8.00. I guess those that plan on selling their old climbing shoes to finance retirement ----may have to work longer-----a lot longer.
Royal brought in a lot of climbing gear, but to my knowledge: the only gear with his name on it was Galibier rock shoes, and Salewa Carabiners.
The Robbins Ultralight Carabiner was introduced with a Jan 1978 Ad in Mountain.
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Modesto Mutant
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Nov 29, 2009 - 01:51pm PT
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I worked at Mountain Paraphernalia from around 1976-1978 as a grunt and had the time of my life. I don't remember taking home very much from my paychecks as I would tradeout for gear most of the times. Mountain Paraphernalia was in the back of Robbins Mountain Shop which was an oasis for those of us stuck in Modesto. The staff was a wonderful mix of fun loving people. Chuck Shultz, Charlie Nemec, Don Near, Ida, Keith Roush just to name a few. A highlight of any given month would be when Royal would host a slide show. John Cleare, Galen Rowell, Doug Scott and many others would come in and show their slides to an enthusiastic crowd. After the shows we would go across the street to the Stein Club for cheap beer and shuffleboard. The gear was freely flowing by then. Salewa 'biners and ice axes, Edelrid ropes, Galibier boots, the orange RR shoes, Karrimats. I would lose myself in the book room reading Terray, Rebuffet and the old classics as well as guide books from the Sierra Press. Of course Royal and Liz would host us for a big holiday dinner each year and during the summer we would all go river rafting and kayaking. It was such a wonderful time.
Kevin Givens
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2009 - 03:24pm PT
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Kevin: Thank you for the "insider information." I forgot that Keith Roush came out of Mountain Paraphernalia. He worked as an outdoor rep in the Rockies for many years and also owns Pine Needle Mountaineering in Durango.
One unanswered question from this link is: did Royal have a separate name for the wholesale book division? Anders brings up the name "Mountain Letters" ----- which rings, jogs, but does not awake my memory.
Please post up any other trivia you have. All your stuff on Robbins and Mountain Paraphernalia is of interest.
More old Mountain Paraphernalia Ads. They were running multiple ads in every issue of Off Belay in 1978. Usually a large Edelrid and a large Galbier Ad, then small ones for other items. Previously it was at most one ad per issue.
Another question---what prompted the ad blitz?
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Nov 29, 2009 - 05:21pm PT
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^^^
I'll chime in on that chime in...
First pair of climbing shoes?
Blue suede RR Yosemites.
Sure wish I still had 'em...
Went through two pairs of Galibier
Superguides - as I recall, the first (or
intermediate) challenge to the Galibier
was the wood shanked Habeler Superlight,
just before plastic boots took over.
For me, as a teen age dishwasher in Grant
Grove (Sequoia) Robbins shop in Fresno was
the best, great staff, it was a dream just going
in there.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2009 - 07:53pm PT
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Thanks all for posting.
June 1979----the name change to Robbins Mountaingear: shows up in an ad in Off Belay.
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Modesto Mutant
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Nov 29, 2009 - 08:06pm PT
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I don't recall if Royal had a name for the book distribution. But there was a ton of books, all of them for general retail distribution. I would be surprised if any other wholesaler had as many. Freedom of the Hills, classic Himalayan expeditions, Joe Brown, Bonnington, Rowell, Scott, Messner. It was also the main distribution of Mountain Magazines.
I see Royal posting on here now and then, we could just ask him, or Peter Haan would likely know.
The other great part of working at MP was shipping the goods to virtually every mountain shop in the country. There were these metal plates with the store names and addresses. Neptune, Elephant's Perch, REI Seattle, EMS, and obscure stores in places you would never expect like Normal, Illinois. On hot friday afternoon days when we were grinding away we would talk Royal into buying us beer just to keep us going. All great fun.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2009 - 09:42pm PT
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Pate: Easy answer that covers a lot of turf. The Edelrid ad photo is of Mt. Blanc.
Note below full-page ad from Off Belay with Edelrid poster Offer.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2009 - 12:15pm PT
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Robbins kept up a "torrid pace" of ads in Off Belay in 1979, but there were not many in 1980. This may be because Off Belay was nearing its end. Last issue for the magazine was Feb. 1981.
However, I didn't find any Robbins ads in Mountain after Jan. 1979. The brands he imported are still advertising there, but Robbins is not mentioned as U.S. importer. That however, was typical of ads in Mountain by: Edelrid, Salewa, and some other Euro companies.
I do not have many old issues of "Climbing" so I don't know if the amount of Robbins ads in that magazine kept pace with those in Off Belay.
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4damages
climber
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Nov 30, 2009 - 12:25pm PT
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Some great history.
I thought RR was a incorporated business as of 2008? I have not
checked lately.
Are there still records of the court case? If so are they available
with the causes of action or actions?
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Nov 30, 2009 - 01:06pm PT
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I loved my RR's, you could edge on nothing and a toe-in jam crack, like Georges Tree at the Book on Lumpy, could be done easily while all of your EB brothers were crying in pain.....smearing....not so good.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2009 - 01:53pm PT
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4damages: I did not mean to leave the impression that Royal Robbins went out of business in 1982. They stopped importing climbing gear and concentrated on their own clothing line thereafter. Royal & Liz have not been owners since (I think) 2003.
If you would be so kind as to reseach and post info on the lawsuit Pat Ament brings up---that would be great!
Ydpl8s: Glad you loved your RR's. Since you bring up the pain of EB's---here's a classic Neeley cartoon from Off Belay.
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