Shooting at Joshua Tree

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Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Nov 23, 2009 - 04:51pm PT

I like shooting guns. I am quite expert with certain hanguns.

The shooting did not bother me, but I could see that it bothered others I was with.

The Cohn property is a unique situation being a small holding in the middle of a National Park, within a few hundred yards of popular crags and about a mile from a major campground.

I think they should show some deference and not engage in shooting sessions on busy weekend prime season days.

They can do it if they want, it's not illegal and I would not want it to be illegal. I just think it's common sense.

A little politeness can go a long way.

edit: It was F4 Phantoms in the old days...

Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber

Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly

Nov 23, 2009 - 05:15pm PT

don't ya just love it when other people try and tell you how to live your life? NOT! and how about when they try and tell you what you can and can't do on property that you have a legal right to occupy? eff that, now we're getting into what the damn government does to us when we want to access "public" property. I absolutely hate that s**t! effn adventure pass comes to mind............

rlf

Trad climber

Josh, CA

Nov 23, 2009 - 05:15pm PT

Well now that all the bullshit is out of the way, I'll set the record straight.

I'm the caretaker here at the Cohn Ranch. Have been for over 4 years and probably will continue to be for a long time to come.

Then ranch was homesteded in the 40's, LONG BEFORE THE NPS CAME ALONG.

Having gotten to know the family very well in this time, I have heard horror stories of what has happened to this place when no one was here. Break in's, vandalism, squatting etc.

I frankly don't care what people think. I'm sick and tired of kicking people off the property. This is after they have walked straight past No Tresspassing signs and telling me to f*#k off. I'm tired of climbers trying to sneak on to bag routes. I have looked out my front window and found people standing in my front yard and ignore me when I nicely asked the to leave.

Yesterday Tucker & I had to kick 4 kids off the property and I had to threaten them with the rangers and jail to get them to leave.

I'm tired of listening to loud music blaring from hemmingway parking lot and a long line of motorcycles going by all the time. I'm sure the Cohns are less than pleased with their property being broken into and vandalised.

I get tired of finding people trying to OB camp on the property and adjacent properties that I also oversee.

I'm the the one who moved the shooting range further back on the property so it wasn't next to the road.

As a general rule, they come up on the weekends and usually shoot on Sundays.

Get over it.

I'm not a real gun person, but do shoot occasionaly. We always notify the park service when we do shoot via the West Entrance. We don't shoot after dark and we don't shoot before sunrise.

Considering the number of climbers who have bragged to me about their deliberate tresspassing here over the years, I find it interesting climbers would be bitching about it.

Sorry, folks, it ain't gonna change.

Also, just because climbers live here does not mean it's open season on the Cohn property. Please respect that this is our home, and that the owners do not want people wandering all over their property.

By the way, weekends and busy holidays are the best time to shoot, it's when we have the most problems with tresspassing.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Nov 23, 2009 - 05:38pm PT

So it's the owners coming up on weekends who are shooting?

Have it your way. It's not against the law and I wouldn't want it to be.

Just curious, isn't there some scenario in the works whereby that property will be absorbed into the park? I've heard all kinds of stories about this but have no knowledge of the facts.

Must have been something up there in the '40s...

rlf

Trad climber

Josh, CA

Nov 23, 2009 - 05:52pm PT

It's not just the owners, we do it as well. Just not as often.

No, they stopped that along time ago. Maybe Randy could shed some light on the subject. The in holdings in JTNP are the exclusive right of the owners. They can do what ever they wish with in certain limits.

If the property we're an absolute garbage pit, with no one living here, and was a possible hazard things could be very different. My wife, myself, Tucker Tech, the owners and a hand full of other have spent the last 2 1/2 years cleaning this place up. We have to date removed 24 tons of crap outta here.

The 99 year lease is something that happened in the very early years of the park service and the forest service. As I understand it, that stopped along time ago.

klk

Trad climber

cali

Nov 23, 2009 - 06:16pm PT

Then ranch was homesteaded in the 40's, LONG BEFORE THE NPS CAME ALONG.

The dates don't look right. One of Roosevelt's Executive Orders designated the Monument in 1936. To be an in-holding, the Cohn property claims had to pre-date that year. I can't recall when that property was developed, but I know that the NPS moved to close down claims throughout the Monument, most notoriously the Keys Ranch.

And there was essentially no Homesteading after 1940 in the lower 48 states. (Aside from a few exceptions, such as the 5-acre parcels specifically designated after WW2.)

That said, it doesn't bother me too much if the Cohns want to shoot guns there, so long as they aren't shooting towards the damn road. If nothing else, it's a useful reminder of the desert landscape that preceded the Monument.

bvb

Social climber

flagstaff arizona

Nov 23, 2009 - 06:18pm PT

seventh heaven.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Nov 23, 2009 - 06:28pm PT

Sounds a bit like Skaha on our Thanksgiving weekend (mid-October), which is the start of hunting season for deer and goats. The area itself is a provincial park, and indeed was partly made into a park to protect mountain sheep breeding habitat. Half of Skaha abuts urban/rural areas, but the other half is next to forested hills. Kind of gets noisy there that weekend - a regular cannonade. One of the trade-offs.

rlf

Trad climber

Josh, CA

Nov 23, 2009 - 07:15pm PT

I well could be wrong on the dates, I'm no historian. I know the house was started around 1941, the land could well have been aquired long before then. Remember, building out here in the 40's was no small task.

Regardless, they own the property out right. The Cohn's bought it from the original owners sometime in the 60's.

Simply put, I have an obligation to the owners who have generously allowed my wife and me, and my friends to live here and play here to maintain and safe guard the property. I could care less if you're a climber, camper, casual visitor or otherwise.

This isn't your property or your home, stay off of it.

I find it highly amusing that I get told to f*#k off on a regular basis when I tell people to leave.

BTW, calling myself or the owners "Rednecks" is ignorant.

Since ignorance is bliss, you must be one happy guy.

BTW Rockjox, if I misunderstood your post, then my apologies.

Brian Hench

Trad climber

Anaheim, CA

Nov 23, 2009 - 07:34pm PT

The line in Randy's guidebook about climbers getting shot at was enough to stanch my curiosity about the Cohn property.

rlf

Trad climber

Josh, CA

Nov 23, 2009 - 07:37pm PT

"seventh heaven. "

Ok route, it was chopped before I got here. Tucker and I did an additional 10 routes on either side via top rope that were excellent. All in the low 10 range.

Blitzo

Social climber

Earth

Nov 23, 2009 - 07:40pm PT

I love getting smashed and shooting guns on The Cohn Property and maybe even climbing.

rlf

Trad climber

Josh, CA

Nov 23, 2009 - 07:42pm PT

Blitz'odity, you're back! Have fun???

You just missed Grant by a couple of days. He says hi.

rlf

Trad climber

Josh, CA

Nov 23, 2009 - 07:56pm PT

HA HA HA!!!!!! Ain't it the truth...

Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber

Santa Barbara

Nov 23, 2009 - 08:00pm PT

From what I understand the Keyes Ranch was owned outright and they could and did sell it on the open market. A developer bought it-but with the intention of doing a land swap for some land owned by the Feds adjacent to some property they already had in San Diego county. From my understanding the Cohn property has the situation. They can sell to the highest bidder.

p.s.
rlf-whatever happened to the big cats?

rlf

Trad climber

Josh, CA

Nov 23, 2009 - 08:05pm PT

Yes indeed, the ranch can be sold on the open market if they so desire.

The big cats are now at a wildlife sanctuary in Socal and being very well taken care of. I've seen them.

They are indeed big.