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Prezwoodz
Big Wall climber
Anchorage
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Nov 17, 2009 - 03:44am PT
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On our recent trip to the Arrigetch we found a stopper on the summit with KLOSE stamped into it. I think it was from his and Bearzi's FA of the Magnum Wall on Shot Tower. Its awesome to be following in the footsteps of such climbers.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 17, 2009 - 03:55am PT
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Hey Matty, that is similar to a flight I took over the Thumb back in '77.
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hooblie
climber
sounding out stuff , in the manner of crickets
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Nov 17, 2009 - 04:02am PT
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extreme dave climbed with more of my friends than i realized, though i only simu solod with him up in icicle canyon, he in barefeet. didn't know that he climbed with plumb bob, my partner for the north ridge of stuart. it's a visceral jolt to make these connections here on the forum. i've been thinking of writing up a thing about spending a few long nights, cozied up in dave's sleeping bag, below the grand at a couple dozen below. it was not long after his sad and unwarranted passage, the details of which tear at the hearts of those who know. some of dave's closest lurk here, maybe someone with more authority than i could start the stutzman thread, in hopes of calling them to the fire. i know their respect for him is huge.
i've only seen the devil's thumb from an airliner, though i've seen it in my minds eye ever since. how's that for lack of authority
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago
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Nov 17, 2009 - 04:58am PT
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hooblie!
Sounds like a good way to start an extreme dave thread as any. I would love to here the story.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Nov 17, 2009 - 05:51am PT
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hooblie,
Did you do Stuart with Plumb Bob in in around 1977? I remember reading in the summit register then that he had freed the gendarme.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Nov 17, 2009 - 08:41am PT
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Trip, yes, I know Carl Van Horn very well. I still see him at our yearly ski patrol reunions. (http://afrcski.com); if you're interested here's the link. Carl is a great guy and he and I managed to tie in together a few times before he rotated back to the states back in 75 I think.
One of Dave's nicknames when he was in the Army was Dancin Dave, which due more to his climbing skills then actual dance floor toe tappin, which we all did a lot of in those days at the International Bar and Grill in Garmisch
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hooblie
climber
sounding out stuff , in the manner of crickets
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Nov 17, 2009 - 01:17pm PT
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clint, not as early as '77. i'm impressed with your archival tendency. the exact counterpoint to mine, memory erodes starting the next day. donini's son was born during that visit. that made a lasting impression! though i got the gender wrong, so what could be right about anything i remember? quite possibly a repeat for bob.
just emailed jim williams and made a personal appeal to him to surface here on the tacostand with the story of the ascent of rudshie konka, early bigtime china accomplishment where he and extreme dave pulled off a mega deed in fine extended style.
there's every likelyhood jim is well out pocket, leading some exotic journey on any one of seven continents so we'll see.
although many are qualified to start a stuzman thread, me surely the least. meanwhile back on the devil's thumb...
edit: nov 19th. ok, as expected jim williams is in nepal, says he will fess up mid december. those are my words, not his. i'm just ratcheting up peer pressure
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Handjam Belay
Gym climber
expat from the truth
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Nov 17, 2009 - 04:25pm PT
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A proud prize. One that will certainly fall in time.
Pair any of these 2 up...House, V. Anderson, Rolo, Cordes, Haley, Wharton, Gillmore, Mahoney.
Thast just Americans!?
I'm sure the list is much deeper, I haven't been in touch with the scene for 3 or 4 years now.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Nov 17, 2009 - 05:58pm PT
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It might get done someday, by somebody with a lot of free time on their hands, who doesn't value their life very highly, and gets very very very lucky with the conditions. But I still think that Klose made a good case that those conditions will most likely never happen.
With fluff snow on blank/bad rock, being a good ice/mixed climber does not help. It sounds more like a bolt ladder to me. Ditto for the Zorro Face on Hozomeen. http://www.pbase.com/nolock/hozomeen Although each face has some nondirect lines which are nonblank.
Sort of like trying to do one of the rarely formed Yosemite ice climbs. It doesn't matter how good you are, if the ice is not there, you can't climb it unless you want to aid up the rock.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago
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Nov 17, 2009 - 06:30pm PT
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can't say!
That sounds right about Carl, Dave was already in Mammoth the fall/winter '74-75, Carl arrived @January. Carl was one kick azz skier, bombed-down everything. Carl & Dave were tight. Carl must have a story or two in him. I recall Dave stating that the two of them bailed from the Steck/Salathe for some reason or other, right before we (about half-way)secondary to inclement conditions, ended up doing likewise. Dave told me "you don't know what your getting yourself into"! I soon found out(50m cord=50%++ down-climb).
EDIT: like hooblie said "back to the devil's thumb"(sorry about the drift).
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Nov 17, 2009 - 07:26pm PT
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That AAJ image is awesome. Cool thread, thanks.
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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Nov 18, 2009 - 01:38pm PT
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There's a lot of interesting comments here..............Let me just say that it does present an irresistible challenge to the dedicated alpinist....It's the perfect objective for light and fast.
IMO, the NW face does not pose quite the extreme danger that Dieter suggests it does. When Bruce and I were there it was mainly the hanging glacier from the left that was the most regular and dangerous threat from above. The big hanger on the right, about 3/4s up the face did not go off that regular but when it did it was always around 3pm when the sun hit the face.
Being successful on this face does not require suicidal tendencies. It requires lots of time to observe the weather and mood of the mountain. It's also going to require that the face be iced-up.
Safety will be found in speed and lightness. There are a couple of great places to hide from anything that comes down but you have to be quick enough to reach them. The climbing will be hard but not extreme. You just have to be climbing on neve or ice and not flown fluff
Every few years what was an unacceptable and irresponsible objective hazard becomes more acceptable and eventually becomes just another problem to workout and climb around. What was once considered suicidal for one generation becomes a normal and acceptable risk to the next. More dangerous faces in the mountains have been climbed but this one requires much more time in order to get the conditions that increase the margin of safety. Who will be the most patient?
The NW face of the Thumb stands as perhaps the biggest unclimbed face in Alaska at approximately 7500 vertical feet. It will be a great prize when it gets climbed. And that it will.
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hooblie
climber
sounding out stuff , in the manner of crickets
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Nov 18, 2009 - 02:01pm PT
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bldrjac, that's the kind of post this thread deserves, sober-sided judgement calls such as your's will carry the day.
worthy, worthy objective obviously. patience and understanding (cunning opportunism?)in addition to a sterling skillset
will be rewarded as you suggest
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 18, 2009 - 02:10pm PT
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I have no doubt that somebody will climb the face, it is just a matter of time and the right conditions. But I have seen it from a float plane, and it is one big 'mutha'. Good luck to those who go for it, because, not being negative but more so realistic, they will need luck.
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qt
Mountain climber
psg, ak
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Nov 24, 2009 - 02:26pm PT
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Wasn't it the big face on Mt. Burkett (rather than the Thumb)that Stutzman tried in 1975? They got close, but the weather wouldn't allow the cigar?
It makes sense that Boulder Jack doesn't think the objective hazard on the NW face of the Thumb is very high , because he only spent, at best, one week there looking at it.
Same with Guy and John (RIP), before the objective hazard apparently ended their lives. Kai Hirvonen seemed to think the extreme hazard was perfectly intact, and wisely walked away.
Try spending, aka: wasting, a month below the NW face, watching it --then you may have a true sense of the intricacies of it's objective hazards (I use the plural because there's more than one or two). Meanwhile, you'll enjoy the temperate rain-forest weather.
But timing is everything-- with good ice, good weather, good luck, and a pocket-full of hubris, a skilled climber can climb that thing. Can. Whether or not it actually happens is another story.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Nov 24, 2009 - 03:25pm PT
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Imagine the reputation the north ridge on Latok I would have if it had killed 50% of those attempting it.
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qt
Mountain climber
psg, ak
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it aint 7500' tall either, more like 6700' , by the map anyway; unless the glacier has gone away or the mountain got taller. But hey, whats an 800' difference from reality, since its already "the biggest"?
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Wow I hadn't heard Dave Stutzman's name in a long time...He died in an avalance at Bridger Bowl, skiing the cold smoke. RIP
Big Sky I believe. Wasn't he on ski patrol there?
Sad deal.
-Brian in SLC
(BB season passes in the early 80's)
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