Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 03:36am PT
|
hey there karl, say....
as one who spends hours on end, praying to the good lord--well, when i aint working of course... ;)
i can add this... though i won't add too much more, as many stories (all true) don't always mean much to others, unless they themselvee are going through similar things at the moment, and get encouragment from the stories, as such, etc...
but i can say this:
many things i "set on the shelf", so to speak (things similar to heavy life or death type things, as there is always a bit more behind the scense, than the full picture, shared, from a dream, or in a very impressive thought)..... (things such as your girlfriend seeing the stone house, etc)...
so then, i mainly concentrate here, with this: i take and use the daily info and impressions that get in my heart (as i get them, while specifically asking, when in prayer), and give what is to be shared that is meant for others, each as in different portions and about different things, etc, depending on their life-needs of said day, or according to their long-range problems that they request help with...
whether they live nearby or far-off, i always have trustworthy help, through what i get in prayer:
stuff that i can share as help and council for them (or myself) which gives success in our dealings with others, our job, or their troubles and how to solve, overcome, or get through their hard-trails, etc...
on occasions, the REALY heavy stuff, will come into play, if the good lord sees fit, and then it is more easily understood, and more easy to share, by that time... then, i "pull it off the ol' shelf" ...
kind of like the old song, i reckon:
"we'll understand it better, by and by..." ;)
not sure if this helps or not... but just adding to the ol' pot...
;)
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 03:42am PT
|
Funny thing is, a lot of folks have certain but unexplainable experiences but sort of go numb of them in considering their world view.
Example. My dad saw a ghost as a kid, and described it to one of his relatives. She showed him a picture of a departed relative he had never met and it was a total match.
Years later, his mom experienced a knocking on her bedroom door which she intuitively grasped was the spirit of a relative who she felt must have died. Thing is, this relative wasn't sick and lived 100 miles away. She called the other city to ask about him but he had just killed himself.
Still, when questioned, my dad would profess to believe that there was nothing after death. When you're dead, that's it.
He's got old now and doesn't believe death is the end anymore. He's still not religious or spiritual in any conscious way whatsoever, but just "knows" from within that it's not the end. He's feeling his own death coming (he's 89) and not afraid.
What can I say. We are surrounded by mystery
peace
karl
edit: I know what you're saying NeeBee.
|
|
TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 04:43am PT
|
Karl!
As far as thousands of years ago, according to the Good Book they were rare then too. I was referring to the 'Christian community'not the world in general. They have always been rare in the Church. I just said I may have had 6-7 in over 50yrs,of a different nature. And that's allot among the people I associate with, and MANY in the 'Church' are negative towards me telling/them hearing the story I would say MOST. I don't have a clue why.
Since the topic was advertised here I thought I would be a little more excepted. But here I am trying to defend myself...go figure.
You are absolutely right concerning the world and agree. It being more common now than 1,000 yrs ago.
I excepted what you had to say and I never refer to it, as many times as hear people talk about "gypsies' and 'fortune tellers' and spontaneous writings and dreams, yogis, gurus etc. as 'beating over the head with the miraculous'.
BTW some of the Gypsy's etc. above are getting spirit messages. You have to discern weather they are good or bad spirits. Just discussion.
First of all it is a true story. If you consider it the 'miraculous' fine, I'll take it as compliment. I never looked at it that way. And I still wonder why it even occurred. It is a mystery to me.
Actually I was hoping someone step up and share a similar experience. You believe in the supernatural Karl, why do you have such an aversion to someone speaking of a supernatural event with the name of Jesus associated to it. Is everyone else welcome but...
And as far as beating, I am simply sharing episodes of my life. Things were being shared here and I was simply confirming the spiritual things that are going on that I am hearing from all of you. Beating? I could change the name to Buddha or Brahma or perhaps Allah would that suit you better Karl? More acceptable?
Who is this Jesus you profess from time to time? You want my opinion? You have a spiritual battle waging within, we all do.
I had no intention of speaking any of this, I simply came here to tell you my story that occurred long ago that foretold danger(title of thread). Since I happened to notice others were doing so I went ahead myself.
Initially I was simply wishing you well and offered to remember to say a prayer regarding your healing since I had read your story and didn't realise it was just recently that you injured your Achilles tendon until an hour ago when I saw this post.
I read three leg climbing a couple of weeks ago and for some reason then I thought it was a year ago that it all took place. BTW I am a photographer myself and have spent allot of time viewing your work, and I must say I greatly admire it.
What backfire?? What is there to backfire. An agenda? I have none. You posted "Trippy JUJU Foretelling Danger" My God Karl, my story was begging to be told. I share when appropriate. And can not imagine a more appropriate time.
I just want to say that I believe there is great power in the name of you know Who and if some one is sick or hurt or in grave danger I am willing for my whole life to backfire and fail if it will help them. I do care about you and others Karl, I am willing to make a fool of myself if that is what it takes.I was being sincere Karl, not trying to 'push' anything. Just giving a little to add with everyone else. Its eclectic. I am not blowing any bubbles, this is who I am. Evidently Iam not welcome. I have to get some sleep, 5AM is nearing.
So long Karl, have a long and happy life.
Trip~
|
|
hooblie
climber
sounding out stuff as in the manner of crickets
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 06:38am PT
|
i might be accused of being "new age" in that i'm comfortable being around people who believe there is more than meets the eye, less comfortable with those who know what it is. i'll take the wandering wonderers over the dogmatists. if i want to grow in fascinating ways i will have to keep an open mind which is kind of like keeping it between the ditches. i prefer not to suspend belief nor disbelief, so the physicists who are approaching the sublime with enough sense of humor to break the mold represent the priest class for me.
years ago i read a book by joseph chilton pierce which did not overstretch my sensibilites. in a book called "crack in the cosmic egg", he explored the role that consensus plays in our ability to develop a reality construct. something along the lines of fire walkers who believe they won't get burned having better outcomes than those that doubt but try anyway.
sensitivity is a cause i can sign on to. he related a story of a group of aborigines grazing in drought conditions, without an apparent top down, hierarchical decision to do so, the group moved off in a consensus directed way to intersect a cloudburst a couple of days hence.
perception is influenceable, and reality/consensus is a more apt description of what we apprehend in our effort to percieve. not presenting this as an answer so much as a line of thinking. after all, what exactly is a hunch made up of? what are we tuning into while looking up, choosing the right course when five senses leave us dubious?
on a kauk appreciation thread i wrote that while watching him i began to consider whether there is more that holds a climber to rock than fingers and toes. pushing at the boundaries of what's possible, we climbers are engaged in an internal dialog where "can do" interfaces with "believe it can be done." but there is a "groupthink" aspect to it too. body/brainstate is not an independent affair.
my response to the aboriginal "sensitives" story is to blend a little nuance into my calender, try to be influencible by subtle cues involving time and place in order to rendezvouz with the authentic self, because the proposed version of the future can be a little clumsy as to being in the right place at the right time using strictly western ways
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 10:39am PT
|
I've had many such experiences - way too many to be coincidence. Every message/intuition I've ignored, I've later regretted. The ones I've listened to have saved myself and others from injury and death on several occasions. I've never heard voices, just seen images in dreams, meditation, and while driving. Mostly though I think I am too distracted for these helpful messages to get through.
At other times it's been less clear. I had several near fender benders the month before a guy slammed into the back of my car doing 100 miles an hour with his foot stuck on the gas pedal while having an epileptic seizure. I've often felt it was my karma to have an accident and I would have been better off to have had the fender bender. Then again, if he hadn't hit my car while unconscious he likely would have gone through a fence and collided with three lanes of freeway traffic. So maybe preventing greater harm was the purpose of my messed up neck?!
After I was hit I applied the brakes hard to keep from rolling into a ravine, and instead did three 360 degree circles down the road while he crashed into a concrete fence post. I had a distinct visual impression that I had angels on top of my car flapping their wings like crazy to keep it from rolling. When I stopped in the only wide place in the road, I discovered my glasses had been thrown off and the top of me was wet. When I found my glasses on the floor, I also discovered that my bottle of holy water (Greek Orthodox in this case) had flown out from under the dashboard, broken the lid off on the steering wheel, and doused me with holy water as I was going round and round. Another coincidence of course!
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 12:16pm PT
|
Jan, that is a chilling story. In a good way, of coarse.
And in another thread people try to prove the existence of a higher power...Oh well.
Maybe that is the difference in people of faith. Some recognize certain events differently. Luck, coincidence, or angels stopping your car.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 12:23pm PT
|
Hi Trip
It was painful for me to read your last post expressing discomfort with my response. Perhaps my words were clumsy or you were sensitized while sharing something so personal.
The ONLY thing I took exception to in your post was the statement that such events were "uncommon these days." I think a lot of people have experiences that they don't share because they don't want folks to think they are nuts, or perhaps they are just too personal.
Otherwise, I'm standing right beside you with everything you say and have no resistance to Jesus in my heart at all. (Paul yes, organized Christainity..often, Jesus rocks)
Since some folks get threatened by the miraculous, sharing about it can backfire, but you are right, I started the thread and I guess I'm suggesting that perhaps it's time for some of us to be a bit more open than in the past about some of the trippy things we have been through. I commend you for sharing, and loved your story, which I don't doubt in the slightest.
I had only mentioned "Beating others over the head with the miraculous" as a general principle regarding how and where we share intimate sacred events in our lives. I think we still have to use wisdom in that, but meant NO criticism of you in it.
Sorry we misunderstood each other. I appreciate all you contributions here, whether or not we agree on every intellectual detail about things is immaterial to me.
Much love
Baba
|
|
TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 05:39pm PT
|
Karl- "It was painful for me to read your last post".
I am sorry that pain was a result of something I said. Somewhere, Someone said that what comes out of ones mouth is a reflection of what is in their hearts. And my heart certainly misjudged you, late last night, Karl!
Occasionally, I would share some story from my past as I look back. Hoping something positive would result.
Most often with those whom I consider to be one of my own, and have been deeply hurt by the unexpected result of what I shared. Leaving me, bewildered, wondering "what have I done".
I recall after one such time, I packed up everything I owned and left. Swearing to never go back to the city, especially not to some place where people gathered once a week.
I only made it as far as Lone Pine, where I found a certain Solis, roaming the hills in the Alabama's. Climbing up on the boulders, trying to catch a better glimpse of Keeler. Where many years before I had hiked to, and sat at the base waiting for my friends.
I remember telling them, "I'll bring all the hardware, you guys bring the food". We had planned to meet at the trail-head and make the approach together. But I decided to get a head-start. I figured I would need one, with the tangle of gear I had promised to porter up the canyon.
I recall gazing into 'Iceberg Lake' about three days later wondering if there might possibly be a solitary fish or two lurking in its recesses. And the joy when they finally came into view, carrying a haul-bag full of food. What a feast we had that night, and what an incredible place to have it.
Back then I rarely thought about, let alone revealed, secrets I had long since buried in my heart. Besides, we were young, we had forever for such things.
We lost Kenny @ 1980(he was at Keeler). How could it be, I remember thinking. He was as sturdy as an oak tree. A paramedic, he saved lives, how could he have been taken from us so young?
These thoughts and others swirled through my mind those few brief days I wandered alone in those hills.
I had often entertained the thoughts of becoming a hermit in my younger years, I am sure many have. But I determined that would be a selfish alternative. So once again I drug my sorry azz home.
Your pictures, of your excursions to Whitney, were especially poignant. Returning me to a cherished place in my heart.
And after reading here about several friends with whom I had shared so many endearing moments and adventures. After reading of their last moments on earth, here on ST. I decided to post.
I had spent many hours, as I am sure many do, enjoying the adventures and anecdotes of others. Through there TR's and posts. So I decided to share a couple of mine.
It was all new to me. I bought this laptop in '07, and it sat on a shelf in a the box that it came in, untel about 5-6 months ago. Old habits die hard with me. For I chose to go to the library, use their computer. It was much more simple in my estimation.
I would never have imagined this scenario, as I glance back a few months, at the day I first logged in. I don't recall what pulled me in to this mix of personalitys, this cast of characters great and small.
But whatever it was, it compelled me to cross that line. And here I am apologising to you Karl, for my mistake.
Your a fine man Karl. I hope you continue to share your wonderful adventures for years to come.
Sincerely, your friend John.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 06:13pm PT
|
No need to apologize Bro. I was just bummed that a misunderstanding came between us.
As we continue to share with others in life, we're bound to cross wires and bump into each other's reflections. No worries. We have good intentions and tolerance for our differences if any.
Wishing ya'll well and encourage folks to continue sharing on this thread to the extent that they dare!
Don't click on this thread if you'd prefer your ideas of what is possible stay limited.
Fact is, we're all a bit nuts. Many are stuck in a homogenized, culturally sanctioned version of insanity that seems normal because, at least externally, it is shared.
Others have taken a trip down the rabbit hole and know the world isn't as it seems, but often don't know how to digest the unexpected mystery with clarity. That makes them (us) seem nuts to the standard nuts.
Everybody considers climbersto be nuts.
More and more, the mystery is being revealed and we are perhaps challenged to share more deeply than we have in the past. I welcome it.
I have a card on my fridge, "the only normal people are the ones you don't know very well." We all have mysteries within us. We all have some dysfunction within us. Some of us are just locked tighter and pretend better than others.
Plus, it must have hurt to get burned at the stake.
Peace
karl
|
|
TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 07:15pm PT
|
bluering- "and in another thread people try to prove the existence of a higher power..Ow well."
I am not sure what 'people' you are referring to, but I will say this.
I am not trying to prove anything! I am simply sharing an event in my life. Period. For years, as I was implying up-thread, shared the exact story in various churches I attended, or with believers I know. Was I trying to prove something? On the contrary, they already believed in the same higher power I was talking about.
And I will be honest with you, it met with its own vain of criticism and some cases disbelief. I am talking about over a period of 30yrs. a handful of times.
Prove? He was on the earth thirty years and no one believed, and 2,000 years later do you think some mere man could 'prove'?
Really bluering, I would expect more from you. If you choose to 'walk on eggshells' and strive to fit in, that's your choice. I am glad Christ didn't choose to do so. He is my example, and I am not ashamed.
I occasionally share events of my life here, good and bad.
I do see how one could perceive it as "trying to prove the existence...". I am not naive.
But to credit what I believe to something less would be to discredit/devalue Someone I know.
Angels do play a significant role and we will probable not know the total significance until after we leave here(my opinion).
And as BIOTEC stated: eerie.
I understand this fully. And I new that most, if not all would perceive it as so. I took that risk. None of these reactions are new to me. If I am ever asked to speak at a church again you should be present for the firestorm of criticism there.
My only alternative is to withdraw. I have many times, but as I feebly attempted to illustrate in my post to Karl, something always pulls me back.
I will certainly be more discerning the next time the urge comes my way.
Trip~
|
|
TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 07:37pm PT
|
Karl- "Plus, it must have hurt to get burned at the stake".
Hahaha.
So-funny!
I love it, that will keep me smiling.
I better give that some serious consideration though. I can here them chopping the wood right now.(lol)
Everything you said above Karl^^^So true!!!
Thanks Again.
Peace and Love Forever.
Trip~
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 07:40pm PT
|
Trip7. I think you have taken some things too personally. Blue wasn't talking about you. And Karl had no problem with what you said in your first post, except that he thought these type of communications were happening more often. He welcomes them, which is why he started the thread.
Many of us here have a long history of talking about God and such experiences. So there are often back stories and people who resist what we say. Blue was talking about just such a thing. So try not to take it personally. Your stories are welcome. Just be aware that there are plenty of folks on this forum who don't believe in God and think that this is all houiee. Karl and Blue both believe in God. They have different sets of beliefs, but they both accept that God is real. So do I and so do many others.
Jan.. that is a wild story about the car accident. You had karma with this other person.
|
|
TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 08:15pm PT
|
John Moosie!
You know, I almost added that at that at the bottom, that maybe I am taking things a little to seriously and I did pause for a second in regards to what blue was saying. He certainly didn't elaborate on it. And I felt as though I might be missing the intended subtly.
Go a head and say it. "The dudes a trouble maker"(me).
I apologise blurering!
I hardly know you or about your life.
And what I have seen here at ST is one cool and flexible dude.
Willing to make a stand for what he believes, and right there to add encouragement and support when someone needs it. With a dash of humor in the mix.
I did take it to personal.
Sorry to one and all.
And thanks for bringing this to my attention.
I think I will take Frank Sacherer's advice....I can here him yelling at me now..."Shut up you chicken sh#t and just climb"!
Sincerely, Trip~
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 08:20pm PT
|
"I think I will take Frank Sacherer's advice....I can here him yelling at me now..."Shut up you chicken sh#t and just climb!"
How about "Quit squirming dumbf*#k and just post!"
;-)
Karl
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 08:23pm PT
|
LOL, ...or "Get over you self ya dip s@#$, and tell another story"
|
|
TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 08:25pm PT
|
Karl!
Ditto!^^^
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 08:51pm PT
|
Trip, Moosie is right, but no apologies are required, bro.
Your story of when you were younger must have been pretty intense at the time.
|
|
TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 08:53pm PT
|
John- "Get over your self ya dip sh#t... and tell another story".
OK! I like that, good solid advice one and all.
Here goes "another story"(right on topic).
About '72. Out at 'Josh' with a friend for a couple a day's, very crowded three day weekend. Swirling illusions(once again) about becoming a world renowned hard-man in my head(hvn't we all)'
Early morning the urge to crap hit us both. So we make a mad dash to the
Porta-potty or what ever they called it in the middle of the intersection rock campground. I won. Sat inside and I just couldn't drop the load...one little marble...two little marbles.... After about what seemed like a much longer than usual ten minutes, Hugh(climb-partner)yells at the top of his lungs....."SH#T OR GET OFF THE POT"!!!
You should have heard the roar of laughter.
And when I came out it increased!!
Yep!
Hardman, right(think this be clssified as a premonition/or maybe a reality check as in Hardman knot)
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 09:29pm PT
|
Don't worry about Bluering, many of us know "OW well."
|
|
Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2009 - 11:04pm PT
|
You guys are pretty funny...
all I can say is sh*t happens.
Your eyes are either open or not.
It's all a mystery to me anyway, and frankly I like mysteries.
Cheers,
DD
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!