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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2009 - 12:11pm PT
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Mike, nice. Care to explain the Moor invasion of southern Europe bitd? Did that happen because of the evil US empire? The Catholics?
Maybe it was just an attempt to conquer the world. To convert the world to Islam. We all know what that led to. The Crusades.
This is a clash of belief systems. Of religion. To advocate the banning of religion may solve the initial problem but would lead to other, greater problems.
The solution is a moderation of religion. The Catholic church did it. The reformation.
Islam needs it too. Of course, almost all westerm muslims are peaceful, decent people, there is a poison in the religion that twists the preachings. Most muslims recognize this, and disregard it. It's time for these people to speak up and denounce those that would distort Islam.
EDIT:
From someone who actually has served our country in our military, "the thought crossing your mind" doesn't impress me.
Since when is it my duty in life to 'impress you'? That would be the least of my reasons for enlisting.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2009 - 12:14pm PT
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Not in my opinion. I'd recommend going down to the closest mosque in Silicon Valley and asking if you could attend some of their services and talk with the people there. So you can learn more about them and they can learn more about you.
Hey, Johnson, have you read anything about what I've said on this thread???
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2009 - 12:27pm PT
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Let me try to clarify what I think the problem is here. It isn't US imperialism.
It's religious fanaticism. It's a slow brainwashing.
How could a man who says he cannot fight other muslims murder so many innocent non-muslims? They have been brainwashed to think the muslim is better and more pious than ALL else.
A muslim can kill a Catholic priest and garner respect because the priest was an 'infidel'. Of course, if you're a Catholic the priest is the symbol of piety and righteousness. Who's right?
I have a lot of respect for muslims. Especially fundamental muslims who live life in a righteous manner according to God. This is also what drives the fanatics. They think it's THEIR job to do the judging of who's righteous or not.
The Christian faith teaches differently now. Those who are not righteous in God's eyes are for God to deal with, not us personally. God will judge them in time.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Bluey, yea, I agree with you on some points (in your response above); but I don't like it when the issues are over simplified. (and I'll admit, my quotes above also oversimplify to a degree - but its another point of view worth considering). Men are sinful. Power corrupts. No man can ever have enough women nor power. Wars happen and empires are built. People also tend to be religious, and religious rationalizations are often overlaid on the tendencies for conquest. That does not necessarily mean the religions are bad, only that they are used by bad people for ulterior purposes.
I'll grant you that there are some sects within Islam that still have a dessert trader mentality from 1200 years ago - and I wish they'd grow up. But poking a stick in their eye and calling it "democracy" promotion(our own unexamined fundamentalism) isn't helping things at all. If there were 180,000 Saudi troops parked outside of Washington, and if I didn't have the power to carry on a full-on frontal battle, I'd be pretty damn temped to lob a few grenades at someone. Not justifying, just looking at human nature and the face of the male ego.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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So what is your solution Blue? How do we moderate religion? Do you really think that you are moderating the muslim religion by inciting fear in America? I posted what I posted earlier to help balance the incredible willingness on your part to jump to conclusions without knowing the facts.
Yes, this guy is a muslim.
As more info comes out about his history, It also appears that he is unbalanced. This is the very energy that fear plays on. So radical muslims preach fear, which plays on unbalanced minds and gets them to act, but what has your response so far been? Has it been what Jesus teaches to "love your enemy" ? No, so far all I have seen you preach is fear producing.
So what does it mean to "love you enemy" in this case?
Does it mean we just let them do what they want? No, of course not. Jesus threw down the tables of the money changers. He acted. So we know we are called to act. Yet what act? We are called to Love. Is it Love to promote fear? No.. because this will do exactly what the radical muslims are doing with their preaching of hate, it will inflame the fears and hatreds of the unbalanced people here in America, and create more hatred. Just ask any Muslim here in America how they have been treated after 9/11.
So what can we do? Well, one person has already made a great suggest. Get to know the Muslim so they will see that we mean them no harm and we can learn that the majority of them mean us no harm and this will help defuse the situation. It will take the sting from the viper.
Will it be enough, or will it completely defuse the situation? Probably not, so it is important that our police keep their eyes open and look for true terrorist. Yet this guy probably doesn't qualify as a true terrorist as he probably didn't belong to any terrorist organization, and was thus likely just an unbalanced person who got caught up in this so called fight. That is what fear does. It catches people in their unbalanced states and ignites them.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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"Love your enemy" doesn't mean I have to LIKE my enemy.
There's a profound difference.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2009 - 12:40pm PT
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John, an Islamic reformation needs to take place. They need to recognize other faiths and have respect for them. Just as we, as Christians, do.
Fatty is right that the Saudis are largely behind all of this. The shia sect isn't a lot better though. Look at Iran, they're still chucking fags off of buildings as 'punishment'.
It's crazy. Bur very real too.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Hounding an organization out of existence just because a very very small portion of it is radical, is exactly what we need to guard against. Should we hound Catholics out of existence because the Irish have had their war and it has spread around the world? Of course not. The way forward is Love.
The one thing you need to understand is that in this world of duality, it can be love to lock someone up and keep them from creating more Karma.
But it is not love to preach hate and fear, which is what Fatty and Blue have been doing. Their approach is unbalanced. Oh.. blue always ends his rants with, but love the regular muslim. This helps some, but does not really balance out how much he foams at the mouth. He teaches fear and that I will always stand up against.
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dirtbag
climber
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Yeah Silver, we should gas These People while we can!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Why would any one living outside of our borders have any reason to do anthing but hate us?
We've been like an intensified, consumer driven, version of the dark side of the USSR, in the world today. Is that so hard to see?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2009 - 01:12pm PT
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Hounding an organization out of existence just because a very very small portion of it is radical, is exactly what we need to guard against. Should we hound Catholics out of existence because the Irish have had their war and it has spread around the world? Of course not. The way forward is Love.
John, I love ya, dude, but that is the WRONG mentality.
I do love certain muslims. My buddy 'Afghani' is one of them. Ya know why? Because he's a good person who respects my religion too. Sure he's lib and we have disagreements and he dislikes me talking smack about Islam, but it is a real problem. Certain elements have hijacked the religion to justify their deeds "in the name of Allah'. It would be the same if an Italian Catholic murdered Hindus because he thought they were 'unholy'.
We've been like an intensified, consumer driven, version of the dark side of the USSR, in the world today. Is that so hard to see?
Does that justify our destruction, murder, or even condemnation??? How many Euros use Apple products???
How many AIDS/Malaria cases have we treated in Africa?
Who you gonna call when your country is overrun and invaded?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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That is no excuse for preaching fear. Reread what I wrote about how fear just creates more fear. You reap what you sow.
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dirtbag
climber
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You can't blame atheists for this one either.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.
The guy was psycho, he must have known this was going to end in him getting shot, he wasn't trying to coerce anything. He lost it just like the D.C. snipers. Just plain crazy.
He was muslim and yelled "alla akbar", so he obviously bought into some of negative interpretations of Islam.
But the press and the govt. can't be upfront about all this, the guy is still alive and will go to trial. Anything said will influence the trial so it's going to be a case of no comment from anyone who wants to see the guy tried fairly and put away or executed.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2009 - 01:44pm PT
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But the press and the govt. can't be upfront about all this, the guy is still alive and will go to trial. Anything said will influence the trial so it's going to be a case of no comment from anyone who wants to see the guy tried fairly and put away or executed.
Good point, Fet.
John, there's a difference between fear and awareness.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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They've got to do follow up interviews with all the service people
he had as patients
to find out if murdering Muslim Major Hasan was actually
screwing people up to make them combat ineffective rather
than resolving issues.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2009 - 02:38pm PT
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Silver, that is a troubling video. Pisses me off, actually.
Why do they have such a problem with videotaping? Pretty troubling.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2009 - 03:15pm PT
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Silver, I hear ya. Amazing too, the Iraqi dad who ran his daughter over for being too westernized? WTF??? Go back to Iraq then!!!! Go to Saudi Arabia and put a f*#king burkha on her, as#@&%e!!!! Too westernized???
Asshat!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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THIS IS MY THREAD. THERE ARE MANY OTHER THREADS BUT THIS THREAD IS MINE.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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that video is disturbing
unprofessionals running a professional security situation, not good.
propagandizing at the end, rather than professional journalism, not good.
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