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jstan
climber
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Sounds to me like the "5.6 guys" have really got it together.
Good people with whom to travel!
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Maybe the "5.6 guys" could organize a Canned Sardines Fest.
Or Pb&J.
As a guide, however, I happen to know that 5.6 guys drink some of the tastiest Scotch...
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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White pants are hard to keep white. Even if you like the pureness of
white, it's really hard to keep 'em that way. But white pants are cool,
especially so because everybody knows what it takes to keep 'em white.
But once they get stained, you gotta get a new pair of pants if you really
want white. Some pants, though, well there ain't no replacing them.
You can carry on the analogy by adding color. Some colors pollute the
absolute white, while others can actually add a bit of funk to the suit.
The fact is, there's really no replacing anything that you hold near and
dear. You can look for a substitute, but it's never the same. This can
be good, or bad. As stated above, it's your frame of mind that makes it so.
If you think GU soils Half Dome, then it's done. Chop the route, it
doesn't matter, the route is still there but with trash instead of
useable bolts. The fact is, chopping just soils the face that much more.
This debate is about keeping the SFoHD white. Some think it's our
last/best pair of white pants. "We need a place where only the boldest
can go. A place where we know you are God if you go there." A place
where us dirty climbers kept a drawer sanitized to hold those white
pants, for the future climber who's gonna step up and make us all proud.
Little piles of rock in JTree don't matter. Little rocks lower in the
Valley don't matter. We're talking about the pinnacle of pureness getting
stained. Somebody poured black paint down the face of the ivroy tower.
Go climbing for crying out loud. And if you want some white pants, you
might have to look farther than Half Dome, the rock with cables going up
the back side.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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hey coz and sean, you guys are very passionate about your climbs, and it shows. i just want to let both you guys know that i think physical fighting never solves anything, and it would be really sad to me if GU cause any fisticuffs. this, after getting thrown to the ground last year in patagonia over...bolts getting chopped!...but that's another thread.
everybody should try to just settle down a little bit, and breathe. coz, i've known you a long,long time, and i really feel for you bro. i had to accept rap bolting on my beloved medlicott 15 years ago, and it was tough, but i could see i didn't have a choice, the sport wave was coming, and i had to much respect for the rock to encourage a bolting war...besides the fact that i'm a lover, not a fighter.
i guess what i'm trying to say to people is
DON'T CHOP GROWING UP, PLEASE.
shipoopoi
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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K-Man wrote
"Little piles of rock in JTree don't matter. Little rocks lower in the
Valley don't matter. We're talking about the pinnacle of pureness getting
stained. Somebody poured black paint down the face of the ivroy tower. "
Pinnacle of pureness? I thought we covered the history of Half Dome already. This is far from the first bolt controversy there, not to mention a lot of other stuff.
Heros are like tele-evangelists, the more you know, the more the human side is revealed.
Peace
karl
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jstan
climber
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Quality is our global added value!
I must be getting old.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Egos have been really flaring up the past few days, egads.
Chill out, no one is fighting anyone, or even threatened to for that matter. This isn't recess, the big bad bully coz isn't going to make fun of you and throw dirt in your eyes, and meanie sean isn't punching anyone (although I would love to see a good fight, just saying :D)
On a seperate note... no one is going to chop the route... its a long ass hike and a pain in the a$$. Its one thing on serenity or the cookie, but add a 3 hour approach, the chopping ego-heads are only bleeding hearts so long as its convenient.
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laazrockit1
Social climber
mariposa, ca
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hey humans,
i've climbed with sean for years. we put up "sky people 11c" in the ribbon falls amphitheater. just wanted to say, the next time you find yourself vexing out over style, and all that other shi#, get up off your ass in front of your computer, and GO CLIMB A ROCK!!!
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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even though i am with you Coz, fighting is not the answer....
But we all need to consider the facts, and the question now stands, does this act open the last bastion of tradition and adventure to the gym climber mentality?
why can't we keep a few of our most respected and awed places more adventurous?
I would rather see a few more small holes in the rock ground up, than to take the rap bolt approach to half dome. holes can be filled and any ground up route can be done in good clean style and be safe or not. that is the choice before us..
ks
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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a paraphrased distillation of some of Coz's remarks
"when you come to town......dinner and beers are on me and we can agree to disagree"
and then presumably after dinner
"let's beat the crap out of each other"
now that's chivalry.... and I like it
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
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has this pile seen a second ascent yet?
:)
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Sean Jones
climber
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Hey All,
Looks like we were getting somewhere awhile ago, then all went to hell again. Sorry for that. My attitude didn't help any.
Coz,
I never said my way is the only way. Ever. I also never addressed you personally about the chopping thing, and never mentioned anything about fist fighting.
Just stated my opinion to everyone and now we're heading for a fist fight again.
Steve,
Thanks for the words of wisdom above. Much needed.
If I dropped down SB and added a bunch of bolts because I thought that was the right thing to do. I would very much understand people's frustration and even bolts being removed.
That's not the case nor will it ever be. Just as I don't appriciate a bunch of people screaming about thrashing my work
and ripping it apart.
There's some pretty down right rude things on this thread and directed at me. I think I've kept my spirits up for the most part about it all. Some of it hasn't been easy though.
Now I have Cos spraying about power drilling. I can hand drill at least 20 bolts a day and I wasn't alone up there. It took 4 1/2 months to complete this project. You do the math. Not to mention, they're not that big. The 10 mm are 2 1/4 in. long and the 3/8 are 1 3/4 in. long.
You know, for many years now, I've put so much of my time into climbing in so many ways. And more importantly, I ve had to fight and fight and fight some more to make a living at it. That's a very hard thing to do as many of you may know. Scott should really know.
The more you push and push to bring me down. Espessially spaying all over the net about power drilling. Who was that guy that got busted on EC ? The more I realize how this could effect my entire family. The loss of everything I've fought to build for them. Food being taken from the mouths of my children.
I'm not trying to sound threatening. But I urge you to lay the f$ck off of me. Far beyond wars over ethics and bolts. I'm really starting to boil when it comes to peolpe destroying my life and f$cking with my family. At this point, that really is where this is now.
I would NEVER do to ANYONE for any reason some of the things that have been done to me on this thread. We don't have to agree, but we should try hard to get along and process this thing like Steve said. My vote is for PEACE because that's who I really am. My guns are down. Please don't push me into the corner because I will fight my way out of it.
Again, sorry for any sh#t attitude I've thrown out there. Even to the ones hammering me. I know me getting pissed doesn't help anything. Much thanks to all that have had a possitive attitude. Not for being on my side, but just for staying possitive. The world NEEDS that energy bad. Sorry for slipping on my part.
Sean.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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In the spirit of ST social gatherings such as Sushifest, Shootfest, and Crimpie's Welcome to Boulderfest, I propose a Slugfest. Just put on some big marshmellow gloves and have at it.
Of course the main event would be coz vs. Sean, but other possible match-ups could be:
Matt vs. whoever tries to make the 3,000th post
Russ vs. anyone who thinks they're funny (would go 1 round)
Jstan vs. anyone who thinks they're smart (no contest)
Fatty vs. any democrat
Lois vs. Happie
Any others?
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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Klaus vs. 12 miniature Mike Ditkas
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csdude
Trad climber
colo springs CO
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FIGHT ??
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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divad, you forgot ron vs. oli
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Back to the route--is it a FREE climbable route, or is that A0 section un-freeable?
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BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
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A BOLT WAR STORY
As Steve said "It's so nineteen-eighties!".
The following is a true story, altough the names have been changed to protect the perpetrators. On my first FA ever, we were scared, and my partner Dan rap bolted in one of the bolts on a route at Jtree (circa 1980). We were proud of our route, which had all 3/8 inch bolts to ensure years of safe climbing on our little classic.
The rock police summarily chopped the route, and Dan called up the guys (Matt and Sam), who fessed up to the fact that they indeed did the chopping.
Dan told me,"If you see Matt or Sam, tell them I'm gonna kick their ass!"
I ran into Sam, in the Mountain Room bar, and I told him "Dan told me to tell you he's gonna beat you up the next time he sees you." My partner Dan was a formidable fellow, and Sam pleaded with me: "Tell Dan we'll put the bolts back in, with Leeper Hangers!" (which were the bomb at the time, but now are all time-bombs, having all been recalled). "I don't know if that's gonna change his mind," is what I told him.
A month later, at Stoney Point, Dan in fact did run in to Sam, and witnesses told me that Dan had Sam down on the ground, flat on his back, Dan's hand on his throat, punching his face for about 5 minutes.
The bolt police never chopped any more of Dan's routes.
A talented local climber replaced all the chopped bolts on the lead, with 1/4 inchers.
Ten years later, the same guy returned, rapped down and replaced all his 1/4 inch bolts with 3/8 inchers.
Go figure.
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wildone
climber
Where you want to be
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Sean- I know it must be hard not to respond to the Lowest Common Denominator around here (the threat of violence) but I would try to just ignore it. There is a lot of power in being passive, and letting someone's unanswered (or even better, unacknowledged) aggression and antagonism fall by the wayside. You are way strong enough not to dignify that sh#t with a response. And when you do (not respond) it shows who the adult in the room is.
You and I know the truth about how the bolts went in. I hammered so goddamned much that my forearm and hand would "go to sleep" for almost half the day. Pins and needles. At some points, I could barely hold the hammer, and I only drilled anchors and some of the bolts on the first half of the route, and anchors on "Laid To Rest"...(if you get some time, could you do a topo for THAT route and post it up?)
Before that last bit of caveman BS, I was really back to respecting the hell out of Scott again for being a grown up- Oh well.
Ben
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tradcragrat
Trad climber
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BG,
I know bolts are a controversial issue, but beating the sh#t out of people over it is absolutely f*#king ridiculous. People like your partner Dan should not be allowed to show their faces at climbing areas. Any issue that one climber has with another can and should be settled over a beer and a blunt.
I f#king hate violence.
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