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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 26, 2018 - 07:30am PT
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And we know you love it WB, or you would not be here yourself.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 07:41am PT
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Fact
The Russian's have used Bernie as a wedge to divide Democrats/liberals
Can we please move past the use of Russian weaponised BS and try to come together as a movement to try and elect progressives
I agree, Hillary was not that great, but she won the Primary, and there was very little difference on policy between Hillary and Bernie
Who in hell would want to be President?
It's hard to get good liberals that want such a terrible job
Here is another fact, if Hillary won, the Deplorables would have made her presidency a Horror show of investigations, lies and total derangement
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 26, 2018 - 07:54am PT
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Here's where I part ways with my fellow Democrats. Yes, the Clinton machine and Debbie Wasserman Schultz rigged as many components as possible to screw Bernie- It's a fact. These include control of scheduling, committee bylaws and backroom deals.
It was subtle and it didn't include foreign governments, nonetheless, it was designed to tip the scales which in the end, still subverts the will of the voter.
Obama set a high bar for ethics in Government. I suppose this is why so few Obama people we're willing to hold their nose and join the Clinton campaign.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 07:56am PT
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Yet the people that made those claims now say they were wrong
and some of it was Russian troll farm lies, fact
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 26, 2018 - 08:06am PT
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monolith
climber
state of being
May 26, 2018 - 07:28am PT
Hillary has class. She prefers to lose with dignity.
LOL
Typically, election losers make a concession speech and disappear for a while or just return to their previous job. Hillary (like Sarah Palin) chose to capitalize on her notoriety, going on a prolonged Whine Tour. Poor pitiful Hillary. Whah, whah, whah.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 26, 2018 - 08:08am PT
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Gosh, using the word "fact" so decisively is utterly convincing.
Hey, rick sumner: you seem to lean to the right. Would you care to answer my questions about President Trump's apparent willingness to accept bribes? Or his use of unsecured phones?
I'm not looking for argument, but instead for rational explanations, reasons that what appears to be true (to me) isn't.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 26, 2018 - 08:10am PT
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Yes, we're referred to as deplorables
an admission of guilt.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 26, 2018 - 08:10am PT
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^^^
Rick sumner, lemme know if you need me to re-post the questions.
Intelligent people can think for themselves. Do you think for yourself? Is there any room at all to admit that our current president is anything less than perfect?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 08:29am PT
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This article explains a lot about the Trump voter
and why they don't care what crimes he commits or the constant lying
there are a 25-33% of any population that are Authoritarians
they love strong leaders that impart cruelty on 'the others' that they can blame for their suffering
The rise of American authoritarianism
https://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism
In South Carolina, a CBS News exit poll found that 75 percent of Republican voters supported banning Muslims from the United States. A PPP poll found that a third of Trump voters support banning gays and lesbians from the country. Twenty percent said Lincoln shouldn't have freed the slaves.
Authoritarians are thought to express much deeper fears than the rest of the electorate, to seek the imposition of order where they perceive dangerous change, and to desire a strong leader who will defeat those fears with force. They would thus seek a candidate who promised these things. And the extreme nature of authoritarians' fears, and of their desire to challenge threats with force, would lead them toward a candidate whose temperament was totally unlike anything we usually see in American politics — and whose policies went far beyond the acceptable norms.
A candidate like Donald Trump.
lots of good info in the long article
apparently, some people are more susceptible to BS than others
Who would have thought..
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 26, 2018 - 08:38am PT
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Craig, here's a thought: isn't there an element like this on either end of the political spectrum?
There's no science behind my comment, just kind of an observation/guess.
It's easy to see the 20% r so that the article describes on the right. It seems to me that there's an equal, utterly unthinking, close-minded group on the left.
Am I crazy?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 08:48am PT
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Right and left
The phrase "right-wing" in right-wing authoritarianism does not necessarily refer to someone's politics, but to psychological preferences and personality. It means that the person tends to follow the established conventions and authorities in society. In theory, the authorities could have either right-wing or left-wing political views.[17]
Milton Rokeach's dogmatism scale was an early attempt to measure pure authoritarianism, whether left or right. The scale was carefully designed to measure closed-mindedness without regard to ideology. Nevertheless, researchers found that it correlated with British political conservativism.[18] In a similar line of research, Philip Tetlock found that right wing beliefs are associated with less integrative complexity than left wing beliefs. People with moderate liberal attitudes had the highest integrative complexity in their cognitions.[19]
There have been a number of other attempts to identify "left-wing authoritarians" in the United States and Canada. These would be people who submit to leftist authorities, are highly conventional to liberal viewpoints and are aggressive to people who oppose left-wing ideology. These attempts have failed because measures of authoritarianism always correlate at least slightly with the right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 26, 2018 - 09:18am PT
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Interesting test, Craig.
It conveniently ignores leftwing authoritarianism.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 09:57am PT
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Although authoritarians in North America generally support conservative political parties, this finding must be considered in a historical and cultural context. For example, during the Cold War authoritarians in the United States were usually anti-communist, whereas in the Soviet Union authoritarians generally supported the Communist Party and were opposed to capitalism.[22] Authoritarians thus generally favor the established ways and oppose social and political change, hence even politics usually labeled as right or left-wing is not descriptive. While communism in the Soviet Union is seen as leftist, it still inspired the same responses.
The Communist Countries had strong Authoritarian Leaders that appealed to the Conservative Authoritarians followers
hence, they were not left wing nor liberal
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 26, 2018 - 10:00am PT
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Kinda like the unelected European Commission, huh?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 26, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
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It's easy to see the 20% r so that the article describes on the right. It seems to me that there's an equal, utterly unthinking, close-minded group on the left.
You can get left wing authoritarianism but that doesn't seem to be how this country is going.
Some of the those, say down-and-out rust belt workers, who previously voted Dems left the party and voted for Trump. I'm sure there are various reasons why different voters switch but I would imagine a high percentage of those who did switch have various fears and want a strong man to tell them everything is going to be ok.
I don't think the Dems are in danger of going down the totalitarian road.
On the other hand, the Dems aren't immune from angry populist that are out of touch with reality. Sanders is the opening offer on that one.
The wonkish intellectuals and social justice warriors are going democrat and the anti-elites are going R. The 1% got their trillion dollar tax cut so they are still pretty gung-ho on the R's and the religious right got their Supreme Court pick.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 26, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
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Who is Rick Kantor?
Rick Can't-or-won't Answer
Oh yeah CFry: we can all get along if you just stop with the useless adherence to a single party to a broken system. Otherwise I won't ask you about cactus or mineral stuff, like ever. ;-)
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