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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Mar 27, 2015 - 09:22am PT
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Ron...I share in your jubilation over Reid's retirement...Which end of the cow will you kiss...? rj
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 27, 2015 - 09:27am PT
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"In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve."
de Tocqueville
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 27, 2015 - 09:31am PT
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Glad to see you back, Bob. You join Craig as a voice I missed in the debate.
Now, on a different subject, can someone tell me exactly what the U.S. expects to gain from its negotiations with Iran, given that Iran is a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty?
Thanks.
John
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 27, 2015 - 09:36am PT
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'Gain'? Maybe you're looking at it the wrong way.
I'm thinking (hoping) more like avoid. War, that is.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 27, 2015 - 09:40am PT
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Apogee, since Iran's joining in the Non-Proliferation Treaty included a promise not to develop nuclear weapons, I'm having trouble seeing how their new promise not to develop them means anything. Then again, post-Non-Proliferation Treaty history shows that a promise not to develop nuclear weapons is unenforceable (or unenforced) anyway.
John
Edit: It frightens me to think Buchanan ever makes sense, but keeping dialog open with enemies differs from purporting to negotiate a deal to stop development of weapons that have already been promised not to be developed.
And Dave, I hope we're just people with differing opinions, not enemies. Although Bob and I have yet to meet personally, I hold him in very high esteem, and consider him a friend - as I do you.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 27, 2015 - 10:08am PT
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John, I think Dave indirectly referred to you as an adversary, not an enemy. FWIW.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Mar 27, 2015 - 10:12am PT
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What do we stand to gain by negotiating with Iran?
Intrusive inspections leading to actionable intelligence on assets if needed. Lots and lots of information we would not have otherwise.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Not a bad strategy.
Sun TzuIt is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Mar 27, 2015 - 12:12pm PT
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"Are you insured through an ACA program?"
Sketch,I am not ,but will be in 1 year.
My contract RN gf,is,and she has figured how to use NY's program very easily.
Not every state can figure out how to start a rockfight.
JE;Should we just bomb them then?
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Mar 27, 2015 - 12:22pm PT
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Concerning our negotiations with Iran on nukes:
As far as one eyed Harry goes, to paraphrase what a friend told me:
"If a woman showed up in the ER with those injuries and that story, the police would have been called immediately.
They would administer a Rape Kit and all fraternities at UNLV would be suspended."
The Faux news division of Rolling Stone magazine could not be reached for comment.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Mar 27, 2015 - 01:10pm PT
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Thanks Larry, I don't get over to redstate or breitbart much so never know what's occupying the minds of the fringe.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 27, 2015 - 01:46pm PT
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JE;Should we just bomb them then?
No. We should understand that their promise means nothing, so don't give up anything in exchange for a mere promise. "Trust, but verify" would be a big improvement over where this administration seems headed.
John
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Mar 27, 2015 - 01:53pm PT
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The atomic genie has been out of the bottle for decades. Iran will get its bomb no matter what we do, as will any other country with enough wealth and desire.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 27, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
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"I thought it was Jack Germond."
Ask TGT. He just loves de Tocqueville.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Mar 27, 2015 - 02:09pm PT
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'Gain'? Maybe you're looking at it the wrong way.
I'm thinking (hoping) more like avoid. War, that is.
app... how do you figure this treaty will do anything to avoid a war?
To me... the instant Iran has a bomb or two, they will use it on Isreal.... then what do you think will happen????
They, the Iran leaders, are not to be trusted, at all.
Your thinking seems to parallel the same ideas as Neville Chamberlains were in 1938....
surrender at any cost.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 27, 2015 - 02:42pm PT
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How do you surmise the totality of my thinking from that little comment, guyman?
It's pretty hard to draw a parallel between Obama & Chamberlain...the last 7 years haven't strayed very far from the BushCheneyCo. doctrine, and has gone beyond it in many areas. If Romney had won & had the same record, he'd be lauded on the Right.
We don't need to be in another war, esp. one in the ME, where our record is so disastrous.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Mar 27, 2015 - 02:52pm PT
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We don't need to be in another war, esp. one in the ME, where our record is so disastrous.
Agreed...
Bush and company were about as stupid as stupid could be. I see the President now, trying to out do Bush.
We have nothing to gain with this deal, Iran is conceding nothing. Thats not a deal at all.
And I see many similarities between now in the ME and Europe in the late 1930's.
And no, I cant even begin to know what you think, overall, by what you post...... who can??
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Mar 27, 2015 - 03:10pm PT
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Guyman wrote: Bush and company were about as stupid as stupid could be. I see the President now, trying to out do Bush.
Really, how???
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Mar 27, 2015 - 03:14pm PT
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France has more vested in 10 years of sanctions against Iran than any other country. They are not happy about this pending nuke deal, considering that Iran is still the world's largest sponsor of state terrorism (According to state departments in the West).
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath wrote that the nuclear genie is out of the bottle. That is true.
I doubt that singing Kumbayah to Ayatollahs will bring understanding ...except for Iran's understanding of how to game our political system to their advantage.
OTOH, this country hardly has more political capital to spend for boots on the ground.
so what do we do about about it? Big question for those eager for votes and / or legacies.
I remain more than skeptical of Iran's promises and intentions.
Edit: If we give up sanctions, there should be substantial guarantees without timelines. Is it practical, or would it work? It's the Middle East, who knows?
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