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Dave Faus
climber
Mammoth
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Oct 14, 2015 - 02:22pm PT
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Sounds good Dean. What's the best way to get in touch with you?
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Jimr
climber
Redondo Beach, CA
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Oct 14, 2015 - 05:42pm PT
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Come on up, Jimr.....you and I can bomb it on out there and check that thing.
Wish I could Dean, but I'm done for the season and Mammoth may be done for the season as well, except for the locals who could blast in and out from their back door given a window of opportunity. I guess the next couple of weeks will tell.
Fortunately, even if we get a heavy snow season, the register could still be checked much earlier than would be feasible for an area search.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 14, 2015 - 11:06pm PT
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In September, Maverick and his group searched fall zones beneath Kehrlein Minaret, in the direction of Deadhorse Lake, but I don't think they climbed Kehrlein and checked the summit register. They also searched in some other places -- here's an excerpt from Maverick's post earlier in this thread:
We spent hours searching the fall zones, and the base of the glaciers, on the Southeast Glacier, including the Clyde variation, and the Ritter-Banner Saddle routes, each on separate days, to allow a good combing of the areas, but to be honest, a large group could spend weeks in just one of these areas, and still easily miss something.
We also checked the route between Ediza-Minaret Lakes, a couple of times, since Matt mentioned it being one of his objectives while in Mammoth.
Also climbed up beyond Deadhorse Lake to the check the falls zones right underneath Kehrlein Minaret, rough country.
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Jimr
climber
Redondo Beach, CA
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Oct 15, 2015 - 09:29am PT
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I'm part of that group. Maverick checked out the area solo and confirmed it is rough country, but it has not been searched by any means. He and I did a search of the South Notch last year, but stopped short of the top due to time.
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maverick01
climber
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Oct 15, 2015 - 01:29pm PT
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There is a chute leading to a ravine between the main mass of Kehrlein's
southern side, and an outer seperate complex, an area if someone fell
in-between would never be seen, unless someone climbed into it with the
intention to search, which I could not do because of a thunderstorm moving
in at the time. The ledge system west of this concealed ravine, on the
southern face of Kehrlein, would also be an area of interest, but would
require climbing and rappelling gear to reach and conduct a thorough search.
Located someone, who is willing to attending next years search, and is an
expert drone pilot, he does aerial searches for SAR, and has a drone
that can fly at these altitude, this will hopefully eliminate the need for
anyone having to search those class 5 ledges, and put themselves in danger.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 15, 2015 - 04:06pm PT
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Jim, thanks for clarifying and more important for searching. I thought your name looked familiar. (I think I read the reports on HST about last year's search that mentioned "Jimerick"... :-)
Maverick, that's interesting about the hidden gully next to Kehrlein. It’s great that you’ve found a drone pilot willing to help check out that ledge system.
I'm glad that (in addition to other places such as Ritter and Banner) you and your group have been considering and searching the area above Deadhorse Lake and below Kehrlein & Starr. I've been wondering about that area for a while -- few people go there and little searching has been done…
Regarding the scenario that Jim posted on Oct 12th
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&msg=2701418#msg2701418
A bang-up day could be had going up the South Notch, climbing Kehrlein, traversing over to Starr, then back to the Starr/Kehrlein chute and down toward the tarn above Deadhorse lk, then over the saddle between Kehrlein and Pridham, bag Pridham if time permits, then across over to Cecile and back down to Agnew Meadow. Since he bagged both Rielgelhuth and Clyde, this trifecta would have covered a good portion of the southern Minarets and well withing his comfort zone (I think) considering the gear he brought with him and the fact that he was solo. I think most of this is in the class 3 range with a bit of class 4 going up Kehrlein. This traverse would also put the more difficult stuff earlier with an easy peasy peak at the finish (Pridham) and no big deal if time did not permit.
I’ve long wondered about a similar possible scenario involving Kehrlein and Starr, though it didn’t occur to me that Matt might have intended Pridham as well. I imagined him intending to climb Kehrlein and Starr and then to make a beeline down the Starr/Kehrlein chute, down to Deadhorse Lake, and back along the Minaret Lake Trail to catch the shuttle near Devil’s Postpile. I wondered whether Matt might have fallen from one of those Minarets or whether he might have run into trouble descending the Starr/Kehrlein chute.
In Jim’s scenario, Matt might have run into trouble on Kehrlein itself, or on the traverse over to Starr.
I agree with Jim that it would be great to know if Matt signed the register on Kehrlein (assuming he could get it open). There probably isn't a register on Starr, though there’s some confusion about that – see my round-up of info on various registers in the Minarets:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&msg=2452330#msg2452330
BTW, as you probably are aware, when searching last year for the remains of his son, Matt’s father climbed Pridham and left a note in the summit register. He also climbed up to the little tarn above Deadhorse Lake but wasn’t able to explore higher up in the bowl.
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maverick01
climber
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Oct 15, 2015 - 05:19pm PT
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Jim, thanks for clarifying and more important for searching. I thought your name looked familiar. (I think I read the reports on HST about last year's search that mentioned "Jimerick"... :-)
Yeah, that was Lisa's play on the names. :)
There is a TR in the works for this recent search, hopefully it will be posted in a week or two on HST.
In the mean time, here are some articles in the Mammoth Times about our search, which hopefully will keep this in the public's eye. There is also an on-going series in the Mammoth Times by Jennifer Crittenden, about Matthew and Starr, comparing the two's stories, and searches for them (including Dean's).
http://www.highsierratopix.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13568
I’ve long wondered about a similar possible scenario involving Kehrlein and Starr, though it didn’t occur to me that Matt might have intended Pridham as well. I imagined him intending to climb Kehrlein and Starr and then to make a beeline down the Starr/Kehrlein chute, down to Deadhorse Lake, and back along the Minaret Lake Trail to catch the shuttle near Devil’s Postpile. I wondered whether Matt might have fallen from one of those Minarets or whether he might have run into trouble descending the Starr/Kehrlein chute.
Seeing a photo recently of the glacier/snow conditions on South Notch (2013), it seems there was enough on it, to have made it an area of interest for Matthew, especially since he took an ice axe and crampons, and knowing his enjoyment of climbing ice. He would have been familiar with the conditions of this area from his earlier climb of Clyde Minaret.
BTW, as you probably are aware, when searching last year for the remains of his son, Matt’s father climbed Pridham and left a note in the summit register. He also climbed up to the little tarn above Deadhorse Lake but wasn’t able to explore higher up in the bowl.
Pridham was taken off the list because of what you wrote above, and because the route from Pridham to Kehrlein involves some class 5 sections, which includes repelling, which Matthew did not take the gear to do.
Have mentioned to Matt's sister in our conversations, that initially the Deadhorse area was of interest to me, call it intuition, but the lack of snow/ice, and that his name was not in either the Ritter or Banner registers, had drawn my attention away from this area, but it now has my undivided attention.
There are a lot of things going on behind the scenes, our 6 month investigation has uncovered evidence that was over-looked because of "lack of resources", a familiar reason given by PD's all around the US. We hope that we will be able to make some positive changes by working with the Mayor, and the MLPD.
Most importantly, in no way has the search for Matthew concluded, or will he be forgotten, Matthew's spirit continues to shine, his love for these mountains is a beacon for all others, who also love the Sierra, and wish to bring closure for his family.
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Jimr
climber
Redondo Beach, CA
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Oct 15, 2015 - 06:43pm PT
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I read Matthew's father's last trail post. It broke my heart. Any idea of a Pridham to Kehrlein or vice versa is out of the question. Roper clearly describes this, including two repels, BUT, my research has indicated that the saddle between the two is fairly straight forward class 2 that has been used by a few to easily traverse the watersheds. That's why I think the trifecta idea becomes so appealing.
I've also played around with the idea as to why he may have chosen this over Ritter/Banner even though both areas have similar potential for a bang up day. He was a high school math teacher. The discipline deals with logical and absolute ideas. Perhaps, and this is a stretch I admit, a logical, absolute and meticulous mind, when given 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, may just desire to fill-in the section. I know, kind of out there, but.....maybe.
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kief
Trad climber
east side
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Oct 15, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
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Located someone, who is willing to attending next years search, and is an
expert drone pilot, he does aerial searches for SAR, and has a drone
that can fly at these altitude, this will hopefully eliminate the need for
anyone having to search those class 5 ledges, and put themselves in danger.
Drones are mechanized equipment and are prohibited in designated wilderness areas.
Forest Service Manual, 5713.7
I can't think of any reason an exception would be made in this case.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 15, 2015 - 08:23pm PT
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Aerial searches for SAR are for public service should be exempt with permission and coordination from/with the local authorities.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Oct 15, 2015 - 09:04pm PT
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There is no such thing as the Forest Service..They are a figma of our gross materilaistic subconsciousness..Puppets of Honda motors and other carbon producing corporations..The real Forest Service employees are entombed in small cubicles attending endless meetings while speaking in tongues...Release the drones...!
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 15, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
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Are you sure?
You been reading too much bullsh!t from the stooopid duck .....
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Jimr
climber
Redondo Beach, CA
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Oct 17, 2015 - 12:28pm PT
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Looking at maps this morning and realized my scenario makes more sense launched from Devil's Postpile/Minaret Lk. as LAhiker noted. Doesn't change anything as far as the potential search area goes. in DPP and out AM would have added the cross country he mentioned wanting to do as well.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 17, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
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Are you sure?
You been reading too much bullsh!t from the stooopid duck .....
again with the gold.
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DataJunkie
climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Oct 25, 2015 - 02:16pm PT
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It has gotten very cold very quickly this season. After the most recent rainstorm it has remained cold, but still somewhat nice for hiking. The road is closed for the season after the 31st though.
I hiked up to Shadow Lake the other day, it was about 35 out when I started. The majority of signs had posters on them, starting at Agnew Meadows to the junction with JMT (I didn't go beyond that). Even the bridge over the San Joaquin Middle Fork right before to climb to Shadow.
I spent a lot of time down at Reds Meadow and Devils Postpile this summer. There were very few posters in this area, or they were removed. I remember after Steve Fosset's remains were found near Minaret Mine, some campers came forward that said they saw his plane flying in the area. Hopefully there are posters further up the trail. The report from the campers seems to be an example of something important being ignored by the witness as unimportant.
I was hoping to get to Minaret Lake this summer, but with the days getting so short it isn't practical.
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Alpineholydog
Trad climber
Spring Tx
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I know the season of searching is passed. An idea hit me that I'm sure that occurred to others here but I have not seen in this forum or on the Find Matthew Greene site. Have the logs from the summits of all the likely mountains Matthew would have climbed been pulled and the names recorded. One might try to track down those that left their non trail names on the registers. Someone is out there that saw Matthew on the 17th of July. Perhaps showing them the info on Matthew might jog their memory. I cannot remember everyone on my hikes and I know that to put it together is intricate work. Special circumstances stand out however. Are the summit registers gathered somewhere in California? Since it's been a few years one could hope that they might be in a central location. If some are still out there a coordinated effort within the climbing community to photograph the registers in that time frame might be possible in the future. Just a thought...
Anything to narrow down the possibilities.
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Alpineholydog
Trad climber
Spring Tx
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Nov 26, 2015 - 07:01pm PT
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Looks like Sierra club stores summit logs at the Bancroft Library in Berkley. Questions for those in the know...
1. Are all the minarets/Ritter/Banner covered by the Sierra club and gathered and stored.
2. Has anyone reviewed the stored summit loges to get the names of those who climbed on July 17th of that year?
3. If the logs are on the mountains still what about sponsoring a climbing event to photograph the logs for the dates that Matthew went missing. Again the goal would be to contact those climbers to see if anyone saw Matthew in an area to LIMIT the search area.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Nov 26, 2015 - 11:26pm PT
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^^ In this day and age it seems pretty silly to still be recording anything that matters so much with pencils and paper.
It should all be done online, and just remove the (eyesore) registers from the summits altogether.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Nov 27, 2015 - 08:11am PT
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Alpineholydog said:
Have the logs from the summits of all the likely mountains Matthew would have climbed been pulled and the names recorded. One might try to track down those that left their non trail names on the registers. Someone is out there that saw Matthew on the 17th of July. Perhaps showing them the info on Matthew might jog their memory.
Good point. As far as I know, some of this has been done, but more is possible.
Banner and Ritter: Registers were checked after it was realized that Matt was missing. He hadn't signed either, but hear the relevant pages were photographed and attempts were made to contact people who did. I also hear that SAR tried to contact people with overnight permits for the area. It's possible that now that we have the unfortunate luxury of time, a bit more sleuthing into names that might have been hard to track down might turn up someone who might have seen Matt. Others such as Maverick, Cragman, or members of Matt's family may know more about this. I'm not sure who has the photos of those pages but could ask around.
Minarets: some registers have been checked and others not. In July 2014, I collected info on which registers in the Minarets had been checked and posted an appeal for photos of pages of Minarets summit registers from around when Matt disappeared, in an effort to find more people who might have seen him or who might have noticed some other evidence:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&msg=2452330#msg2452330
The appeal, initially posted in this thread, was later posted separately on Supertopo, Summitpost, and Mountain Project. Harry Langenbacher, who maintains the Sierra Nevada Summit Registers page for the Sierra Club, posted an appeal on that page and renewed it this fall.
Unfortunately, no one has replied to my request for pictures of register pages in the Minarets; don't know whether anyone contacted Harry Langenbacher. I can certainly repost the appeal (with any updates) this spring.
As can be seen from the list linked to, not all Minarets have registers. Some of them have been checked for Matt's signature, but I don't think people have yet photographed register pages to find someone who might have seen Matt.
Two caveats: some who might have been climbing the Minarets that day might already have been contacted when the overnight permits were pulled. Also, some Minarets get very little traffic. I think Clyde gets the most -- not sure whether it's log from that summer would still be there but the others probably would be.
Looks like Sierra club stores summit logs at the Bancroft Library in Berkley. Questions for those in the know...
1. Are all the minarets/Ritter/Banner covered by the Sierra club and gathered and stored.
2. Has anyone reviewed the stored summit loges to get the names of those who climbed on July 17th of that year?
As noted above, I think the Banner & Ritter logs have already been photographed and most of the Minaret logs are probably still in the mountains, but it does make sense to double-check the library before heading up a peak for info that may no longer be there!
3. If the logs are on the mountains still what about sponsoring a climbing event to photograph the logs for the dates that Matthew went missing. Again the goal would be to contact those climbers to see if anyone saw Matthew in an area to LIMIT the search area.
Makes sense for any logs on the mountains that haven't already been checked. I'd also recommend photographing pages just before and for a couple of weeks after July 17, 2013, in case anyone spoke with Matt before that day, was still there then, or noticed something amiss in the next couple of weeks.
One could also prioritize certain Minarets, such as Kehrlein (Maverick's group and Cragman have been wondering whether Matt might have climbed it) and Clyde (because it gets more climbers, though that might mean that the relevant log is no longer on the mountain).
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Nov 27, 2015 - 10:36am PT
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In this day and age it seems pretty silly to still be recording anything that matters so much with pencils and paper.
It should all be done online, and just remove the (eyesore) registers from the summits altogether.
I don't think the summit registers I get to are eyesores in the least. Recording your summits on line is stupid.
Mathew is at home in the Mountains now. If this happened to me, I would wish to never have my body found and removed.
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