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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 07:49pm PT
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Irony.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Aug 24, 2011 - 07:54pm PT
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Seems like that flow chart should have gone back to the top after the route is repeated. WOS is then in a never ending cycle of controversy or a big yawn.
Dave
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Aug 24, 2011 - 08:17pm PT
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Which participant is this cat?
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D.Eubanks
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 08:59pm PT
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deuce4, that photo of Xavier is one of the best wall shots ever.
Xavier Bongard was one of the best Big Wall Climbers EVER ! and a inspiration to many.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 24, 2011 - 10:27pm PT
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Thanks for the reply coz. I usually can form an opinion pretty easily, but I'm still on the fence on Growing Up. I definitely see the SFHD as a very special place, but I wonder if the adventure of the FA team (a one time deal) so easily outweighs creating the best route for those that follow AND reducing unnecessary holes. So I think first hand inspection of that route is also in order (for me personally at least) to see if I agree with the FA team's call.
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Aug 24, 2011 - 10:36pm PT
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I've enjoyed following this wacky thread for years. I've read the WoS book and have no reason to doubt it is an accurate account of the climb. And I look forward to seeing the movie. If the FA of WoS was merely a botched bolt ladder by two bumbling imbeciles rather than a respectable hard climb by talented visionaries as some of you continue to claim, why haven't we been shown any substantial evidence to support your case other than repeated innuendoes and increasingly shrill personal vitriole? The more I read this thread, the more I admire the WoS climbers (both the FA and SA teams) and the less I admire the critics, especially when the latter had years to justify their claims by climbing the route but never got off the ground.
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Mimi
climber
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Aug 25, 2011 - 12:19am PT
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coz:
"WOS is a ground up climb, to say that the climb itself is bad or that the FA team is lying, is only proven by climbing the thing. Is that clear enough for you? Seems like apples and oranges."
coz, I don't agree. What does style mean to you in a big wall context? That goes for you, Rudder, the Fet and Floyd, etc. Yes, it could have been done much better. No question about that. Claiming to have read their book and still not comprehending what went on up there over 39 days is mindboggling to me. The bashing came only after the misrepresentation persisted for months/years. Have any of you besides coz done a big wall or is this merely armchair quarterbacking and supporting the perceived underdog for you?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 25, 2011 - 12:35am PT
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"Claiming to have read their book and still not comprehending what went on up there over 39 days is mindboggling to me."
OK, so simple question for Mimi:
Could you please provide a concise list of your objections to WoS and/or Richard and Mark? What went on up there for 39 days that you think was wrong or bad, or what someone else could have done better.
There has been so much stuff flung back and forth for so long it's impossible to find everything, but just sort of a basic bullet point summary, please. I ask you as one of the primary detractors to please submit closing arguments, prior to Ammon's story coming out, which is going to be damn fine.
Also, if you know something that nobody else knows or that you haven't revealed yet, now would be the time. The article is going to press shortly.
You never know, you might even find you're right after all.
It will be interesting to see and hear how many extra copies of Rock & Ice will be bought by all the WoS aficionados from here at McTopo! I predict it's going to be a very popular edition.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 25, 2011 - 12:40am PT
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We plan to torture you at the FaceLift, and get whatever story you have out of you that way. FatTrad advocates waterboarding, but that seems a bit much. Maybe we'll kidnap your crab, and hold it for ransom. If you don't spill the beans - so to speak - Doug will make sushi out of it.
Edit: And if you're on a route, well, we know where to find you, don't we?
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Mimi
climber
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Aug 25, 2011 - 12:47am PT
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Hopefully, it won't go to press with R&I at all as it's well established that Duane Raleigh, the owner, is a real pro when it comes to chiseling. A real enhancement booster. He made a career out of doing it and promoting such tactics. If you aren't familiar, I can post his essays on the topic from Climbing.
Pete, there's no way you're getting a play by play breakdown after all this time. You read Bwana's multithousand word blathering essays on the subject. The problem with the whole truth about enhancements is that it dances around what they actually did. Somehow, Bwana forgot along the way that he wrote this in the Book of Dik, wherein all things are revealed.
Except to Pete, and that Dweeb fella, who's on the verge of forming a Glee Club over this fiasco.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 25, 2011 - 12:53am PT
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THAT is the basis of all your angst?
What about Sea of Dreams before WoS and Zenyatta Mondatta after WoS? Those two routes employed similar strategies.
Why aren't you beating up on the Bird, too?
Sure - please post the essays.
Anders - if all goes according to plan, during the entire Facelift I shall be high on the side of El Cap on a rather spectacular route that is certain to capture a fair bit of attention from the bridge. Wee-Wee the Big Wall Crab says hi to Gretchen and Missy, the Beer Girls, and wonders if they could provide a very long straw to the refillable beer glass.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 25, 2011 - 12:59am PT
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The problem with the whole truth about enhancements is that it dances around what they actually did.
I haven't met Ammon or Kait, but somehow I doubt they'll dance around anything - they won't tell us anything but what they saw, what they experienced, and what they concluded from that. A healthy dose of facts should be very helpful.
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Mimi
climber
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Aug 25, 2011 - 01:01am PT
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Pete, I'm not interested in convincing you of anything. You are beyond hope. If you've read everything these guys have written, then you'd understand where they were when they left the ground. You are convinced that the FA is special and we happen to think they fall short by a mile and 39 days. You're blinded by your overeager desire to make this climb into something grand, defeat the detractors and march off into the sunset.
Jim is honest and will talk about anything he's done. It's not about condoning or not. Arm waving about someone else's climbs is not the point here. It's about honest and forthright disclosure of the tactics for the millionth time.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 25, 2011 - 01:06am PT
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Mimi, can you please just answer the f*#king question and make a list? Specifics. You know, real reasons?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Aug 25, 2011 - 01:16am PT
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The problem with the whole truth about enhancements is that Richard and Mark admitted it--in the book and in this thread-- and it has Mr. and Mrs. Weak Sauce (Mimi and Steve) dancing around in a 30 year long fit of rage about what they actually did.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Aug 25, 2011 - 01:22am PT
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Riley, your new nickname is Leeroy Jenkins. Youtube it.
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Mimi
climber
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Aug 25, 2011 - 01:23am PT
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Pete, no, I'm not doing your work for you. You've been in on this since the beginning. Is your brain that muddled?
gnomeboy, yes, after much prodding, they've admitted to some level of enhancement but not the extent. What's your devotional number of enhancements this evening? Out of 145, how many? What percentage? Bwana and Skid finally nestled into 10% or 15 drilled hooks total. Do you think that's accurate? Are you good with whatever they say?
Yes, word, Riles.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 25, 2011 - 01:24am PT
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What do you know, Mimi, that we don't know?
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