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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 30, 2015 - 03:01pm PT
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Still waiting for the real stats guyman.
If you expect us to get on board, you gotta pay the freight.
Lorenzo... you got me... I will go and see what I can find tonight.
But let me ask you this. These people whose stats you point to drop you off of the unemployed list (they stop counting you) as soon as your unemployment runs out.
Now if they wanted real life true stats why would they do that????
Sort of reminds me when the Reagan administration changed the way we looked at inflation. They changed just what was included into figuring the inflation rate. A good way to make it look like his team was fixing the problem.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Dec 30, 2015 - 03:09pm PT
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Guy, they don't stop counting you as unemployed when your UI runs out. They stop counting you if you stop looking for work. If you aren't actively seeking work, you are not considered part of the labor pool. Makes sense.
There is also not one single definition or measure of unemployment. There are many ways to measure and the govt publishes all those measures. You've probably heard of "U-6" etc.
It's not simple. Neither are inflation measures, which again are not a single thing. What you typically see is "CPI" the consumer price index, which takes a standard "basket of goods" that represent what a tpypical family might buy. This does not include some of the more volatile things people buy, because the stats would swing all over the place and make it hard to judge the effects/level of overall price levels.
Nuance, it's what's for dinner.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 30, 2015 - 03:17pm PT
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So, please, enough of the bullshit about govt engineers being "overpaid".
Elcap.... you explained it very nicely. You trade security (not being part of the private bizz and all the wonderful ups and downs that entails)for security. I really get that, I do.
but I must ask this.... why in the heck do we need non-military folks working on a military base in the first place? Surely some junior officer could do your job for the regular military pay. They do teach planning at Annapolis. I grew up in the Military and having civilians around was almost unheard of. My father and his crew were launching and using satellites way before private sector people were needed.
The whole idea of private sector dudes needed in the service is something new. I could never figure out why the Bush admin needed "private contractors" to guard a facility in Iraq, at $1,000 day? I thought thats why we have privates in the service, they will work for like $45/day.
They stop counting you if you stop looking for work.
Edit... Yes I know, I stayed looking for work long after my unemployment benefits ran out, but how did they know I was looking or knott? Did they hack my computer/phone????
This does not include some of the more volatile things people buy
Things like FOOD and FUEL you mean.
and don't feel like I hate on you personally, I do not. I just see somethings as being wrong. (civilians in the Military is one of them)
Government EXPERTS is another.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 30, 2015 - 03:41pm PT
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From personal experience, I saw that women doing the same job as men in the handbag industry made less.
 Entry salepeople - Men started at a base salary plus 2% commission. Women were NEVER hired as an entry salesperson; they had to "come up" through being an assistant to the top salepeople or owners, and it every one of the women I knew who had to go that route said they had to fight hard to get out from under being assistant. Some were given a few (very small accounts to be appeased, while remaining as aids. The ones who demanded to have their own account list got half of 1% commission. Also, every male got at least ONE decent, large sized account(such as a Kohls, Dillards, Belk). The new to the industry women NEVER got the "gimme"(one which, unless you were so bad at selling that your buyer refused to work with you) generated a decent level of income just from the volume).
At one of the places, one of the guys who was a lead designer got married, and the company owner gave him a $20K raise "because he would soon be starting a family." No woman who had ever worked for that company recieved any change in compensation when they married or began their families.
At another, the owner hired this man to be a merchandiser, at 250K, when nobody else in design made over $150K. Thing is - we handled ALL facets of the job he received ourselves before he came on board. The guy had glossed his experience and didn't know jack about fashion trends, marketing, or production - the areas of "expertise" he was brought on to manage.
The new (2015-era) way to hiding the income disparity is with yearly bonuses, which are subjective. Don't believe it? Google is your friend - just ask the question.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 30, 2015 - 03:57pm PT
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Happy.... good examples. How is this company doing now?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Dec 30, 2015 - 04:20pm PT
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guyman just denied that women make less than men for the same work and then changed the subject to H1B's. Now he's on to civilians working on military bases.
the problem is that the jobs today are part-time, temporary, or service oriented.
There's nothing wrong with "service oriented" jobs...we are transitioning to a service oriented economy. That's been predicted for decades. The problem is that the lower paying service jobs do not currently pay a living wage.
The labor numbers are as they are because it is important to have a consistent number counted in a consistent way. Changing it prevents us from being able to compare it to years past. Knowing the "real" unemployment rate doesn't mean anything from an economic standpoint, it's just political. Nobody actually doing policy work looks at one number. If people want work then they will start looking for work again and they will be counted in the unemployment numbers.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Dec 30, 2015 - 04:32pm PT
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James how exciting to note your new alliance with pyro.
The right of workers to organize for fair wages and working conditions is a freedom that reasonable people everywhere should recognize as self-evident, and one that I continue to proudly support.
Assuming you have a functioning memory, you would recall that some serious damage was done to the Bill of Rights by the passage of the Bush administration's Patriot Act with the nearly unanimous and hysterical co-operation of Congress. Unread and without debate. A great day for civil liberties in the West. This represented a serious dent in the freedoms of average U.S. citizens, and there has been less than nothing done to address these issues since then has there, James?
You and your new friend pyro should enjoy your "freedom" while you've still got it, because with Trump in power, even phony "lefties", are going to be in the target sights of these 1%er monsters.
Of course pyro and his toxic clones have the freedom to ignore awkward questions. Fascists have successfully ignored their opponents since Mussolini's rise to power - an honest attempt to debate issues with their critics would interfere with the hateful propaganda they attempt to pass off as facts.
There's little doubt that we dislike each other James, but, as objectively as I can manage to state, I honestly can't figure out what on Earth you are trying to say on approximately 50% of your posts, so I exercise my freedom by ignoring them.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 30, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
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HDDJ... If people want work then they will start looking for work again and they will be counted in the unemployment numbers.
So please eplain how that happens???? I am all ears.
Look this IS the Donald thread, you must keep up, HDDJ. It's all about how WE ARE ALL GETTING F-over by the system in place.
Well maybe not you. are you 1%??????
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Dec 30, 2015 - 05:00pm PT
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why in the heck do we need non-military folks working on a military base in the first place?
This is actually a simple one to answer. Two major reasons:
1. There are not sufficient numbers of civil/mechanical/electrical engineers and other similar specialty positions who are in uniform. Not surprising when you think about it. And while you can train virtually any young person to drive a tank, shoot a weapon, cook chow, etc...not everyone is intellectually capable of professional engineering work or accounting, etc, and even if they were, it takes many years to train them.
and equally or more importantly
2. Stability and continuity. The standard career progression in the military requires constant movement from base to base as the officer climbs the ranks. They must continually learn how the miltiary system functions in order to lead and command those functions. So they move from job to job, base to base, to build the skillset needed to progress and assume higher rank and responsibility. So you end up with commanders and other leadership moving around about every two years or so. That means you have no stability, no continuity among the uniformed folk. The ones who stop moving and progressing have essentially hit their career dead end.
I've been on my current base for five years. I've seen four commanders come and go in that time, three JAGs, four deputy group commanders, etc. Without the stable, civilian support workforce, the places would almost cease to function. I have one employee who's been here 23 years, another 27 years. The institutional knowledge these two have, knowing the base inside and out, why things were done or built certain ways, etc and not having those positions vacant because someone just made rank and got moved, that's worth a whole lot.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Dec 30, 2015 - 05:20pm PT
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but how did they know I was looking or knott
The data is collected via surveys. They (I think census actually does it, the stats are then compiled and published by BLS) survey something like 100,000 people every month, and continually change the people that make up the sample each month so that the entire sample turns over a few times a year. Stats wonks can explain to you why that sample size is big enough to get an accurate read for the country.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Dec 30, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
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Many teachers I know, hate the union they are forced to join and pay dues to and these same teachers tell me that the Union is one of the BIG PROBLEMS with making our educational system preform again, like it use to.
So, Guy, what are they doing about it? Do they go to meetings? Do they vote in union elections? Do they run for union office or become union stewards?
Unions are democratic institutions. They reflect their membership. You can piss and moan about a bad union, or you can do something about it.
I'm retired from the baker's union. In the '50s an as#@&%e named Jimmy Cross became international president. He was a crook. He slowly fired the organizers and hired hookers. He embezzled funds. It took 12 years of fighting this thug and his goons, but the bakers took back the union.
BTW, I know some teachers who love the union and appreciate what collective bargaining has done for them.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Dec 30, 2015 - 10:25pm PT
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James: Thank you for taking the time to collect those epithets.
-Fascist - Look it up in the dictionary. I'm far from the only person who uses that word, and I am using it correctly. It is also appropriately applied when referring to the supporters of Fascism.
-Scum of the Earth - See above.
The bloodiest war in the history of the planet was fought rid our Earth of Fascists, who didn't give a rat's azz about freedom of speech or any other civil liberties.
I have repeatedly been called a "Communist" and a "Socialist" by my poor helpless adversaries, so why aren't you defending ME instead? You claim to be a "leftie".
I most emphatically don't have a political dogma of any sort beyond thinking that we should treat the powerless with kindness and that the 1%ers shouldn't be allowed to steal ALL the money from the other 99%. It's that other 99% who are doing all the work as they try to raise families on their rapidly disappearing crumbs of the economic pie, so I feel that they should be entitled to expect fair wages and decent working conditions.
If you took the trouble to read most of my posts, I actually attempt to provide verifiable information to support my assertions, and periodically encourage people to check things out for themselves and form their own opinions. When the people I am attempting to communicate with continually refuse to provide a response, you bet I get pissed off. Don't try to sell lies on a political forum without expecting to be called on them.
Incidentally, this may have something to do with the seeming disappearance of TGT - He posted a breathtakingly offensive comment about abortion, and I requested verifiable proof from him to support his claim at least twice, and I believe that I was as polite as I could manage - no response and, by the way, I had nothing to do with his apparent vanishing act.
As for my outrage about a Fascist sympathizer using an image of the sanctity of the secret ballot to dodge a question, surely even you have the intelligence to comprehend the irony of this hypocrisy.
I'm sorry I've only responded to about 50% of your post. As I said before, I have considerable difficulty understanding what you're even trying to say sometimes. This is one of them.
Oh, yeah - when scum like dubya Bush and his gang of thugs end up defiling the Oval Office, innocent people end up dead, like the conservatively estimated 100,000 Iraqi civilians. Let's also ignore the thousands of dead and mangled U.S. troops who fought in that unnecessary war. Let's ignore them, because the Bush White House certainly did when they came back.
THINK, James. This isn't a formal dinner party where we're disagreeing about some esoteric climbing matter. This is the real world, and horrible things end up happening when lunatics end up in charge of the most powerful military machine on the planet.
You started this thread, so try to show some leadership for a change and provide your opinions on the policies of Trump.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Dec 30, 2015 - 11:03pm PT
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Nice critique Stewart :o
this place is as much preschool as it is university tho
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 30, 2015 - 11:05pm PT
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There will be blood.
A constant of human history.
The hero's of you wannabe commies were the worst perpetrators of human misery and death in the 20th century.
The Droids supporting such despotic regimes have always sounded like the two idiots stew and crank posting above.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Dec 31, 2015 - 06:23am PT
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Whatever, Wasilla Dick. If I could find an app to filter out your bigoted nonsense, I'd get it.
Until then:
http://trumpfilter.com
Few people have dominated the media — particularly online — in 2015 like Donald Trump has. Mentions of the business mogul and Republican presidential candidate are nearly impossible to escape on the Internet, but a new Google Chrome extension called the Trump Filter aims to change that.
The add-on is available in the Chrome web store and has three adjustable levels of filtration — mild, aggressive and vindictive — for the level Donald Trump references that it finds and eliminates from one’s web browsing experience, CNNMoney reports.
The filter was created by Brooklyn-based self-proclaimed “Internet Mathemagician” Rob Spectre, who says he created it not at the behest of any political entity (or anyone else) but “out of a profound sense of annoyance and patriotic duty.”
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 31, 2015 - 06:49am PT
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Cool app, but Trump is so entertaining.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 31, 2015 - 06:55am PT
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greasemonkey for trump. classic
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Dec 31, 2015 - 07:05am PT
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On my way to work this AM I drove on freeway seen 5 big bad UNION workers looking like they are working hard..
They say it's really hard to get into UNION but once ur in lots $$$ will be given to u.. 5 guys 4 of standing around watching 1 dig a ditch. . I would out work all those guys.. I just can't stand around LOOKING LIKE I WORK HARD..
UNIONS are not needed these day'Z..
Steward ur a ring leader of some sick drum circle in which I could drink that KOOL AID.
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