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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:16am PT
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I'm patiently waiting to read about the official SA as much as anyone.
Yeah? Well you've talked for years like you were part of some SA team already and already know. What's up with that?
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Mimi
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:19am PT
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You're kidding, right?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:20am PT
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Just let it die. Please?
It will if you let it. C'mon.
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Mimi
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:24am PT
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RURPS:
"MImerZ
You aRE a cuntbag, now pull your DICK out of StevZ Ass and STFU!
YOu ttwo are f*#kinggoing to hELL.
Worthless LIke a box of dickZ in Mr. GrossMAMS HANDS.
Remember, THE climING coMMUNITY is VERY SMALL!
Steve, quiet your bitch for us will you?
rurps"
You sound like someone I used to know. If you have any self respect, you'll provide your real name. We'll see if you're wearing your big boy pants tonight. Either way, you're history.
Email edit: This is awesome! I've never been attacked like this via email by an STer. I'm sure it won't be the last time. LOL! Should this guy get banned?
From our very own Mr. Ron Anderson. Is this the poster Ron Anderson? Gosh, Ron, I had no idea.
First message:
Mimi,
Go f*#k yourself, infantile c#&%.
Sent by: Raron
The second message:
Greetings from a Fellow SuperTopo Member!
This message has been sent from a fellow registered SuperTopo climbing member to you.
When did you ever climb A4, you skanky f*#king bitch?
Sent by: Raron
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:35am PT
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Oh, yeah. That's right. Sorry. I was kidding.
Wowwwwwwww
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Mimi
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:37am PT
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Isn't that wild, Bwana? Some of your pals are real zealots aren't they? They've joined your jihad.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:47am PT
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Nothing close to the jihad you were party to, and a thoroughly stinky leader of, for nigh unto 3 decades. You ain't no Spartacus.
Difference here is that I have no jihad and have nothing to do with party-line zealots. You've managed to attract this sort of attention to yourself all by yourself. And this attention isn't based on lies.
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Mimi
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:51am PT
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"And this attention isn't based on lies." Well said, Bwana.
coz, why'd you delete what you said? It was classic! You have to edit that back. What are you trying to prove? Calling Steve a liar? Over-rated? I've done a enough walls and lived the life all while you were staring in the mirror fluffing yourself in the lot.
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
California
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:52am PT
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I picked the Albatross line for my friend Will, whose lifelong dream was to do a new route and fly.
That is awesome and beyond comprehension to most who are reading this… you must fly in one shoes to understand why they must soar.
AND… Long live Xavier Bongard, this photo inspired me more than any other:
Thanks Duece!
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:00am PT
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coz- she has you there bro- editing out that shite kinda paints you into the pussy corner, you said it, man up already, don't be such a wuss about it and delete it like that!
ammon- that does indeed look like a pirate in a sky hammock, no?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:28am PT
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Yes, great photo. Best part of the book. There's nothing wrong with Sea of Dreams. Nothing wrong with WOS either. But hypocrisy stinks.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Aug 24, 2011 - 03:46am PT
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This thread is so awesome I might choke on my popcorn!
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 06:25am PT
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Captain (or Skully)-
Just let it die. Please?
It will if you let it. C'mon.
Cap’n, it’s unlikely to die, and I theorize that there’s a few reasons why.
Given the general historical consensus that silence on the part of the WoS team regarding their own climb was an indicator of their guilt/villainy and a confirmation of the rightness of the slander campaign against them, the general point of view on the part of the WoS party is that BS needs to be called out when it is presented. Statements or arguments against WoS – the climb or climbers – must be refuted, as failure to do so has historically been taken as a sign of failure to be able to defend themselves against the charges brought against them. We’re seeing that in action right now, as Richard is calling out the bullcrap and naming it as such.
As that happens we’re seeing the other side justifying itself more and more vigorously. Entrenchment is becoming more and more intense. Minutiae are being called out, as are issues only tangentially related to the climb. For what reason? Well, I can only speculate, but I believe it’s so that they do not have to lose face. “We did it for all the right reasons. And you can see that we had good reason to do so if you recognize what we’ve been saying, which is that these guys were incompetent fools.” What can I say? They had their reasons. It’s their methods I find detestable. But anyway, the smaller the iceberg that they stand on gets, the more desperately they cling to it, and the more BS they put out to try and stay afloat, which Richard then moves to address.
So, that’s the cycle, at least as I’m seeing it. In the middle of it all is a lot of personal meaning, and even dare-I-say pain for all parties involved that has gone back for decades and continues into the present. That’s not something that one can just let go of because someone else suggests it. “By gosh, you’re right! I should just let it go! Ha ha ha – what did I ever care about this silly stuff for?” In fact, often suggestions to just let go will paradoxically just make the problem worse – I recognize you have a good intent of heart, so I don’t mean to come off as attacking you (I’m mostly mentioning this because of how commonly I see that suggestion) but it’s an invalidation of how important this stuff is to all parties concerned. And that leads to more to work through.
What’s the solution? Well, I don’t know. But it’s probably not going to be an easy one. And it almost certainly won’t come about through the current pattern. Fact is, I think the SA report will lead to further entrenchment, rather than ultimate resolution.
If you have some thoughts about this, I'm interested in hearing them.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Aug 24, 2011 - 06:40am PT
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An astute synopsis. I agree that those opposed to seeing the fa party with any sort of respect are so entrenched at this point as to render Ammon and Kait's first-hand assessment, even if it was all accolades and tales of futuristic difficulty, meaningless. You could have Jesus bring Charlie Porter back from the other side, have Gerberding or the Silverback partner up with him, and even if they got back to the bridge with the news that it was another order of magnitude radder than anything else, even then, they wouldn't get any respect nor would this whole thing be put to bed. And both sides are culpable for that.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 07:32am PT
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Greetings, Wild One!
Thank you for the response. I’m surprised to see anyone else on at this time of morning.
An astute synopsis. I agree that those opposed to seeing the fa party with any sort of respect are so entrenched at this point as to render Ammon and Kait's first-hand assessment, even if it was all accolades and tales of futuristic difficulty, meaningless. You could have Jesus bring Charlie Porter back from the other side, have Gerberding or the Silverback partner up with him, anid even if they got back to the bridge with the news that it was another order of magnitude radder than anything else, even then, they wouldn't get any respect nor would this whole thing be put to bed. And both sides are culpable for that.
That got a laugh from me. Thanks man. It sounds like we are generally in agreement. Perhaps I’d vary slightly on one point - I would say that rather than both sides being culpable, rather both parties contribute to the ongoing pattern. I say that because culpability is a word that to me implies blame or wrongdoing. I think that what we’re seeing is actually a healthy human phenomenon – people fight for what they’re passionate about. To a certain extent, I think that’s healthy. What’s problematic about what we’re currently seeing is the extreme to which it’s being taken. But it is certainly true that both sides contribute to the ongoing pattern.
And, I mean what can I say? I think what Richard’s doing is reasonable. He’s being attacked, he’s calling out those attacks and explaining why they have no merit. Given that’s an opportunity he and the WOS team haven’t had historically, I support and am glad for the fact that he’s taking full advantage of the opportunity to do so – if he hadn’t the general consensus about the climb and subsequent events would be the same as what we see on page one of this thread.
But like I think we both agree, this pattern will keep going until the end of time unless or until both sides try to do something different. Maybe that’s not such a bad thing as I’m currently presuming it to be (and as I think about it, it ultimately should be the WOS team’s choice as to how they want this to play out, given they’re the ones who got burned), but personally I’d like to see a resolution where everyone can walk away without resentment and with reputation intact.
Also, I’d like to see a chimpanzee jet pilot.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Aug 24, 2011 - 07:59am PT
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Dude, one or both of those guys may be your friends so maybe you can't see it the way we all do. I support the fa side insofar as I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt, and the time-honored climbing tradition of taking one's word for it with regard to reporting fa's.
Also, what the hell are you doing up this late? I've got an excuse. I work nights in the arctic. Not a whole lot going on.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
wussing off the topout on Roadside Attraction
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Aug 24, 2011 - 08:18am PT
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Me, I'm in Tajikistan. But you can see this train wreck from SPACE.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 10:05am PT
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Dude, one or both of those guys may be your friends so maybe you can't see it the way we all do. I support the fa side insofar as I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt, and the time-honored climbing tradition of taking one's word for it with regard to reporting fa's.
Also, what the hell are you doing up this late? I've got an excuse. I work nights in the arctic. Not a whole lot going on.
Well, that's a fair statement as yes, both of the FA party are my friends. All the same, I'm interested in hearing your perspective and I believe I can do so without feeling a need to argue my point of view.
As for what I'm doing up at that hour, I do shift work at a childen's home and work the overnight. There's some down time later in the shift and it gives me time to think and to write. Now you've got me curious as to what night shift work in the Arctic is like...
Anyway, I would very much like to hear your thoughts on the situation as you see it.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Aug 24, 2011 - 10:51am PT
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they wouldn't get any respect nor would this whole thing be put to bed.
Yup, truer words were never spoken. And if Ammon comes back with anything negative about the route, whether it was our responsibility or not, a whole new wave of this garbage will ensue. At some point you just have to say: "Reasonable people have largely changed their minds positively about us, while entrenched people cannot be moved and will fixate on anything they can get to justify their decades of angst. So, we've about played this out as far as it can go."
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 24, 2011 - 10:57am PT
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And regardless of Ammon's final and breathlessly awaited verdict, WOS is just another climb on a large piece of stone located on a tiny World that is a speck in a vast and rapidly expanding Universe.
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