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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2018 - 05:23pm PT
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It will be open season on the next Democrat President.
The same way it was for the previous two Democrat Presidents?
Republican politicians have been leading the way towards hyper-partisanship since Reagan was president.
There is a legitimate, factual reason for investigating the Trump campaign. People are not pleading guilty out of loyalty to Hillary Clinton. They're pleading guilty because they have committed crimes. GOP members hindering the investigation won't change the facts. They'll just delay the inevitable, and hopefully they will be indicted, themselves, for obstruction.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 23, 2018 - 05:28pm PT
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Yep. I hear nothing, nothing from Dem 'leaders' about this sh#t storm.
One of the major rules of politics, is that when your opponent is tripping all over themselves, DO NOT become a distraction by speaking up. Trump is on the line with N. Korea. I think he will not be winning the Nobel this time around....
I see no reason to distract from the sh*t-storm that is Trump. Indictment after indictment. Guilty pleas galore.
The only message that is not being well addressed, is the tax cuts that people MIGHT get, based upon what the Gov't has borrowed to give them. Run that deficit up to give rich people money.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 23, 2018 - 05:52pm PT
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What Contractor said.
I think he's giving W a run.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 23, 2018 - 07:31pm PT
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Funny, in between the first grade name calling, I never got any answer/explanation on this one from our right-leaning friends. I'm asking again nicely. How is this not accepting a bribe? Here's the original question:
"And, please add to the explanation a description of how the following is not overt bribery by the Chinese of President Trump:
1. The President takes a hard line on trade with China;
2. Having caught the Chinese company ZTE cheating and lying about North Korean sanctions, the President orders them cut off from American made parts, thus effectively gutting the company;
3. The President's Indonesian business venture then receives half a billion dollars of Chinese investment;
4. Shortly thereafter the President backs off of sanctions against ZTE.
Is this bribery? It appears like bribery to me, but I certainly don't know all the background facts either.
Are there other explanations? Did anything else change other than this Chinese funding?
I'm open minded. I really dislike President Trump and his utterly corrupt administration. But I'm open minded.
To prove that I'm open minded, I'd be willing to start listing things that this fool has done that I like.
But one of you right-leaning posters help me out here. Please. No name calling, just a simple-english explanation. Was President Trump bribed by the Chinese?"
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 23, 2018 - 07:36pm PT
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And while you (whichever right-leaning friend takes this on) are thinking on/answering that one, here's a pair of questions for any poster here who thought we should "lock her up:"
1. Was Hillary's use of email systems as Secretary of State a reason to "lock her up?"
2. Is Trump's use of totally unsecured phones as President appropriate?
If you (the person kind enough to respond) answer with a yes/yes pattern, feel free to add in an explanation of how and why the double standard should be applied.
Thanks ahead of time!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 23, 2018 - 07:55pm PT
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Mtn. Young...When pigs fly...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 23, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
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Wise guy ey...? Moe poking curly in the eyes with forked fingers..
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 23, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
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I posted pictures making fun of public figures appearances sure. I didn't post racist things. If you can't tell the difference I guess you'll never know.
Combing through peoples accounts and history is creepy.
I posted a picture making fun of Hillary, I wonder why you didn't post that one?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 23, 2018 - 08:44pm PT
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Brad at least we know DJT ain't doin' no Weiner style funny bidness self skin art cellie captures with his unsecured phone. can you prove such about the losing (loser) candidate in the past election?
, djt sprayed cohen paid and all I got was this lousy Bengerzer tshert
gotta say Ken M if you think that your party of democrats has political strategy well wrapt then boy you got some sausage skin to get clipping. forget the republicans bent over by an orange impotent. forget the dems and the lame lame lame political inability to be dicks. UNITY PARTY 2020
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 23, 2018 - 09:27pm PT
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What we have here is failure to... cooperate.
Answers please??
Nice post Malemute; important questions.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 23, 2018 - 09:58pm PT
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George W. Bush still holds that honor.
Gary, I disagree. It took GWB eight years to win the worst president prize.
Trump won it in less than a year and a half.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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May 23, 2018 - 11:20pm PT
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Here you go mtnyoung. I'm interested too. This also has bearing on the goofy stuff happening with North Korea. I have to wonder if China gave the same kind of deal to Kim. How would we know? Hang a carrot in front of Trump and see what happens. The way Trump has been hanging the carrot of enrichment in front of Kim is kind of a giveaway to Trump behavior. He expects Kim to react in a way that Trump responds himself to China and China responds to Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/17/opinion/trump-china-bribe-national-security.html
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 24, 2018 - 06:24am PT
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McHale's Navy,
Excellent article. Plain English and objective.
I hadn't even heard of the very, very similar Qatari situation. There Trump has - at least - left an appearance of bribery:
"...this wasn’t the first time the Trump administration made a peculiar foreign policy move that seems associated with Trump family business interests. Last year the administration, bizarrely, backed a Saudi blockade of Qatar, a Middle Eastern nation that also happens to be the site of a major U.S. military base. Why? Well, the move came shortly after the Qataris refused to invest $500 million in 666 Fifth Avenue, a troubled property owned by the family of Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law" [emphasis added by me].
This statement from the article fits perfectly with all I've ever been taught about political ethics:
"We’re not talking about a court of law, where the accused are presumed innocent until proved guilty. Where the behavior of high officials is concerned, the standard is very nearly the opposite: They’re supposed to avoid situations in which there is even a hint that their actions might be motivated by personal gain."
I've also heard the words as "the appearance of impropriety."
I'm approaching "wall of text" length here, so two quick questions to our right leaning Supertopians:
1. Is the President of the United States using his powers to specifically enrich himself?
2. Isn't the mere appearance of such impropriety the very definition of the Washington swamp?
I'll take my answers in plain English please ;)
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 24, 2018 - 06:26am PT
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xCon, I was referring to the failure of right-leaning posters here to respond to my questions (to cooperate).
But it fits too with current prevailing political attitudes too doesn't it?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 24, 2018 - 06:35am PT
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— Do you believe in democracy, or not?
— Are you faithful to your country, or to your party?
— Are you loyal to the law and the Constitution, or to a man?
— Do you reflexively ascribe the worst motives to your opponents, but somehow deny, excuse, or endorse every repulsive thing your compatriot says, does or tweets?
Democracy
Country
We are a country of laws.
I reflexively ascribe the worst motives to most politicians. Dems more than Repubs. Most of both parties are ultra-partisan turds.
Who do I consider to be admirable politicians? Trey Gowdy, Nikki Haley, Ben Sasse and Barack Obama.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 24, 2018 - 06:36am PT
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King Donald has ordered an investigation , witch hunt , into a spy being planted in his campaign by Obama...The King has created a conspiracy theory matching his previous claims that Obama wasn't born in the US and Obama wire tapped his room..It's obvious King Donald is trying to derail the collusion investigation following his pattern of obstructing justice...Trumps MO in winning the presidency has been attacking his opponents full force with lies designed to ruin his opponents integrity...Now 2 republicans will meet and review secret intelligence regarding Donald's latest conspiracy theory...Is it a coinicidence that Nunes , Trump's court jester , is going to be one of those Republicans viewing the secret inteligence..
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 24, 2018 - 06:57am PT
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Perhaps the "Which Hunt!" that DT is constantly decrying is actually his own hunt - throw down a breadcrumb trail and see who is following it. Sort of like the exploding ink packets on bank robber cash bundles....
Those who pick up the breadcrumb trail are the "witches," having pretty much handed themselves in, making the job of controlling those folks much easier.
Yes, I do tend toward conspiracy, but you have to admit - IF a group were trying to exterminate a segment of a population that they considered subversive to their goal, this would actually be a great, and effective, strategy. If I were a dastardly tyrant, I'd be patting myself on the back pretty nicely for thinking of this idea.....
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dirtbag
climber
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May 24, 2018 - 07:12am PT
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McHale's Navy,
Excellent article. Plain English and objective.
I hadn't even heard of the very, very similar Qatari situation. There Trump has - at least - left an appearance of bribery:
"...this wasn’t the first time the Trump administration made a peculiar foreign policy move that seems associated with Trump family business interests. Last year the administration, bizarrely, backed a Saudi blockade of Qatar, a Middle Eastern nation that also happens to be the site of a major U.S. military base. Why? Well, the move came shortly after the Qataris refused to invest $500 million in 666 Fifth Avenue, a troubled property owned by the family of Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law" [emphasis added by me].
This statement from the article fits perfectly with all I've ever been taught about political ethics:
"We’re not talking about a court of law, where the accused are presumed innocent until proved guilty. Where the behavior of high officials is concerned, the standard is very nearly the opposite: They’re supposed to avoid situations in which there is even a hint that their actions might be motivated by personal gain."
I've also heard the words as "the appearance of impropriety."
I'm approaching "wall of text" length here, so two quick questions to our right leaning Supertopians:
1. Is the President of the United States using his powers to specifically enrich himself?
2. Isn't the mere appearance of such impropriety the very definition of the Washington swamp?
A bit of congressional oversight from the beginning could’ve reigned some of this in, reducing doubt about his motives, and actually strengthening his presidency. Oversight could be trump’s friend, in many cases.
Lacking any backbone, congress has encouraged this to fester.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 24, 2018 - 07:36am PT
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I don't know what you're talking about!
Ever since Citizens United, American corporations, foreign governments and investors have taking their Congressional oversight duties very serious with remarkable results.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 24, 2018 - 07:39am PT
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King Donald has ordered an investigation , witch hunt , into a spy being planted in his campaign by Obama...The King has created a conspiracy theory matching his previous claims that Obama wasn't born in the US and Obama wire tapped his room..It's obvious King Donald is trying to derail the collusion investigation following his pattern of obstructing justice...Trumps MO in winning the presidency has been attacking his opponents full force with lies designed to ruin his opponents integrity...Now 2 republicans will meet and review secret intelligence regarding Donald's latest conspiracy theory...Is it a coinicidence that Nunes , Trump's court jester , is going to be one of those Republicans viewing the secret inteligence..
and people don't believe trump is senile.
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