The Flames.

Lance Vance (1958-1986) was an American helicopter pilot who worked as a cocaine dealer in Miami, Florida alongside his brother Victor Vance during the early 1980s. Vance later teamed up with Tommy Vercetti to avenge his brother's death at the hands of Ricardo Diaz in 1986, but he would grow paranoid and betray Vercetti, leading to his death at his friend's hands.

Russ Walling · 8 mins ago · www.FishProducts.com · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 3,407
I’ll admit I’ve glazed over reading most of this “I want to lead” stuff. Reality is, at ahem... our age, one bad fall will end your climbing career if you got hurt. We (when starting out) took took bone crushing falls, hit things, broke things, and got pretty messed up while learning leading. In my adult youth I decked once, with Bob Gaines belaying no less, and ended up not being able to look to the left for 6 months nor touch my toes for almost a year. If something like that happened now, I don’t think I would ever make it back.

Now I manage risk a little better and have about 40years of experience to draw on. That is something you are not going to pick up at a lead class and certainly not by falling on low angle rock which would be the playground of the budding trad leader. The urge to lead is a great risk that if mishap occurs all the joy you have now will be stripped away. Be super careful and if you persue this lead dream, be certain that whatever you decide to lead is well within your comfort range. Now is not the time to flip the switch on “if you are not falling you are not pushing yourself” rabble, at least on trad routes.

Señor Arroz · 14 hours ago · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10
Lori Milas wrote:
But where it left me when everyone was finally grown and on their way was with a bonafide panic disorder, (diagnoses in addition to PTSD which I thought was reserved only for combat veterans)

So it seemed sort of ironic that I would choose climbing for a cure. It's been dicey and it's been slow.

First, thanks for sharing something so personal here. That means a lot.

PTSD and panic disorders are tough. I've spent a fair amount of time in a couple different conflict zones though almost none getting actually shot AT. But the very fact that someone is actively looking to shoot, kidnap or otherwise harm you definitely gets under your skin. I'm also married to a therapist who, as part of her practice, helps people deal with domestic violence and sexual trauma. All that is just a rambling lead-in to say that it's very common for people with PTSD and its many variations to find enormous relief through sports and activities that gently stimulate the fear and excitement centers of our brains. I've seen veterans who were barely functioning become much more balanced and happy after taking up surfing and/or climbing. So it's terrific that you stumbled into climbing in your own way. The universe seems to have its own way of nudging us toward our own salvation.

On a different topic, I just want to clarify that my reaction to someone discouraging you from leading is not about you NEEDING to lead or it being the end all. It's about what sounds like a very patronizing approach to discouraging you from something you want to do. If it's Gaines telling you that, I doubt it was delivered in a patronizing way and I probably misread the intention. But you can learn anything you truly want to learn. None of this is magic. It's just attention to detail and hard practice. Both of those are things you've demonstrated already.

And, if you don't decide to lead, there's always this...


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Russ Walling · 14 hours ago · Overlord @ FishProducts ·
Jeffrey Constine wrote:
Whoa Bob dropped you never heard that one!!
Never said that... I said Bob was belaying... probably saved my life by pulling in some handfuls of rope. I pulled a bunch of pro and decked, but with some random piece staying in and taking a lot of the force off of me... It was blower dude!

2 Flag Quote
Jeffrey Constine · 13 hours ago · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 588
Rad, glad that random piece held !!!!

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rgold · 13 hours ago · Poughkeepsie, NY
I've hit the ground four times. One was a solo fall. I remember starting up, but woke up in the boulderfield and don't know how high I had been. There was an obvious wet streak about 20 feet up that might have been the culprit. Once was an aid fall when the first piece blew as I was trying to get higher up on it. This was a bad technical error on my part, due to having just started using nuts. Fell about fifteen feet and landed on my back between two blade-shaped rocks, either one of which would have been instant paraplegia. The other two ground falls don't really count, since the rope was involved and had taken up a lot of the fall energy by the time I hit, but in one case my belayer jumped off his stance on a tall boulder to take in enough slack.

I wasn't wearing a helmet for any of them. The only one that gave me more than some scrapes was the aid fall onto my back, which broke a rib or two.

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Locker · 12 hours ago · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,269

"If something like that happened now, I don’t think I would ever make it back."

About two years ago, I was told by my regular Doctor and a Surgeon that I was done (Fractured/broke L1,2,3,4,). Skipped the supposed needed surgery, went strait to PT and pain. Few months later and good to go!!!...

Even at our age (64), we can sometimes heal good enough.

:-)

Never give up!!!...

EDITED:

"I wasn't wearing a helmet for any of them."

I never wear a "Choadmet". The one time I did, the enitre time I was climbing, it felt like something was on my head...
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Russ Walling · 12 hours ago · Overlord @ FishProducts · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 3,407
Locker wrote:

"If something like that happened now, I don’t think I would ever make it back."

About two years ago, I was told by my regular Doctor and a Surgeon that I was done (Fractured/broke L1,2,3,4,). Skipped the supposed needed surgery, went strait to PT and pain. Few months later and good to go!!!...

Even at our age (64), we can sometimes heal good enough.

I agree Locker... regardless of whatever injury I might sustain, perhaps even death, I could make it back to climbing at your level. I was talking about making it back to my level. ;)