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MH2
climber
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Nov 11, 2009 - 03:06pm PT
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Thanks for that one Ed; truth is stranger than fiction and usually funnier, too.
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Nov 11, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
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Gobee,
did you read Historical Jesus yet? I placed the link in here previously.
I don't think the gospel rejection is contemporary.
Dr. F.
have read the book yet that I provided. One of the doctors noted
in the book graduated and or did his work from Master of Jesus college.
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Nov 11, 2009 - 10:26pm PT
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No, can you provide me a ISBN for ordering etc.?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2009 - 10:30pm PT
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And here is a book for Gobee, who likes to copy and paste from his book.
Atheist Universe: The Thinking Person's Answer to Christian Fundamentalism
by David Mills
Book Description
Clear, concise, and persuasive, Atheist Universe details exactly why God is unnecessary to explain the universe and life's diversity, organization, and beauty. The author thoroughly rebuts every argument that claims to "prove" God's existence — arguments based on logic, common sense, philosophy, ethics, history and science.
Atheist Universe avoids the esoteric language and logic used by philosophers and presents its scientific evidence in simple lay terms, making it a richly entertaining and easy-to-read introduction to atheism. A comprehensive primer, it addresses all the historical and scientific questions, including: Is there proof that God does not exist? What evidence is there of Jesus's resurrection? Can creation science reconcile scripture with the latest scientific discoveries?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2009 - 10:32pm PT
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God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
by Christopher Hitchens
God: The Failed Hypothesis. How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist
by Victor J. Stenger
Richard Dawkins, Author of the New York Times best-seller The God Delusion
"Darwin chased God out of his old haunts in biology, and he scurried for safety down the rabbit hole of physics. The laws and constants of the universe, we were told, are too good to be true: a set-up, carefully tuned to allow the eventual evolution of life. It needed a good physicist to show us the fallacy, and Victor Stenger lucidly does so. The faithful won't change their minds, of course (that is what faith means) but Victor Stenger drives a pack of energetic ferrets down the last major bolt hole and God is running out of refuges in which to hide. I learned an enormous amount from this splendid book."
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Nov 12, 2009 - 02:08am PT
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And I'd like to recommend a good book that I just finished titled, The Death of the Mythic God and the Rise of Evolutionary Spirituality.
If religion and faith in God are hardwired into our brains, then it seems to me a better way of dealing with the problems created by religion than just attacking it, is to try to raise the general understanding of God to a level compatible with modern science. This means getting rid of the anthropomorphic, tribal sky God and moving toward an understanding of God as embedded within nature and ourselves.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Nov 12, 2009 - 02:27am PT
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Meanwhile, I just received an ad from Science magazine that made me laugh and want to buy it to wear to the first night of my Physical Anthropology class. As an old Berkeley liberal from the 1960's, I say, Long Live Che Darwin!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 12, 2009 - 03:28am PT
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Having much practical experience in how many Religions actually get practiced in lands where they are in Majority, I can say with assurance that Hinduism has similar but different problems with misinterpretation, corruption and abuse as Christianity has.
Abuse of Caste, women, and all kinds of communal violence. Jan says Hindus have a different relationship with nature but I see them treat their whole country as a trash can with little regard for pollution, sanitation, or protecting the environment from poisons of all sorts.
It's just human nature to manipulate and abuse any ideology, atheistic or theistic. Mao and Pol Pot killed millions without any help from Religion
Peace
Karl
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Nov 12, 2009 - 08:44am PT
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Author & finisher of our faith
Hebrews 12:2, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
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dave goodwin
climber
carson city, nv
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Nov 12, 2009 - 11:31am PT
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I was watching a cool show on tv last night regarding dinosaurs. It got me thinking what "the believers" explanation of dinosaurs is.
Does the bible talk about dinosaurs? Do you believe that dinosaurs existed within the last 6,000 years?
Thoughts on carbon dating?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 12, 2009 - 11:32am PT
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Only as birds...
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Nov 12, 2009 - 02:17pm PT
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Dr. F, Norton,
Thank you I see the notes.
Do you know if Jesus was a civil servant?
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Homer
Mountain climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Nov 12, 2009 - 02:42pm PT
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That is funny Ed, and I think it works both ways. (Do you really think that probably, in the infinity of reality, that's the greatest irony?) It seems like however much the incomplete information we have is, we still have a need to fill in the missing parts with some (wacky?) stuff of our own. It's hard for us to hold on to the provisional nature of scientific belief - it just becomes belief. We make progress towards understanding reality, our knowledge goes from x to x + 1, but where is that in relationship to infinity? We're left with the same need to fill in the blanks for ourselves using insufficient information. I think that's OK for all of us to do as we need, it's just part of who we are.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 12, 2009 - 02:56pm PT
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as good as the flintsones had?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 12, 2009 - 03:32pm PT
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as long as we continue to practice science and it continues to return knowledge we will accept that it works without being bothered that we can prove it works...
...perhaps a practical viewpoint, or a utilitarian viewpoint.
That same sort of thing works for religion too, if you need to believe that you will be punished for being "bad" and religion provides the motivation to be "good" it's hard to argue against religion.
Problem with that is when religion or a religious institution has you act "bad" in the name of "good."
Now science is also full of these sorts of ethical dilemmas, science knowledge is neither good nor bad, but it can be applied in ways that have either outcome. What is the societal role of a scientist? It is especially tricky because the science could be done by anyone.. so if you choose not to do something it doesn't have any effect in whether or not the bad outcome is realized.
While I'm sure there exists deeper ironies in the universe, I cannot know what they are... so I'll stick with my candidate...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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Nov 12, 2009 - 03:34pm PT
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Jan, where can I order one of those cool Darwin shirts? I tried to figure it out from the website, but no luck.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Nov 12, 2009 - 04:11pm PT
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dave goodwin- "does the Bible speak of dinosaurs"?.
Yes, actually it does. One of the places which I am recalling now is in the 'Book of Job' and refers to them as "Leviathan".
Describes them being huge and having long necks, pulling the branches/leaves down from tall trees for food. Man not ever being able to domesticate them etc. I don't recall the exact verse. If you would like I will look?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 12, 2009 - 05:33pm PT
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What about Saultaplasuchus? or Iquanadon? Globigerina pachyderma?
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 12, 2009 - 05:56pm PT
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All you guys are hiding in the dugout.
I'm standing here in centerfield.
When does the game start?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2009 - 05:59pm PT
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No doubt the bible was referring to Giraffes in that section, long necks,
big bodies, eating plant life from high areas.
The Flintstones clearly showed Fred riding Dino, so there is no question
that humans and dinosaurs existed at the exact same time.
Pebbles and Bam Bam even played with Baby Puss, their Saber Toothed Tiger kitty.
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