Wings of Steel

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Da_Dweeb

climber

Aug 23, 2011 - 05:18pm PT

Tradmanclimbs, you hit the nail on the head. It seems like the more threatened their position becomes, the more this duo clings to it out of denial and self-preservation.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Aug 23, 2011 - 05:25pm PT

"Mr. or Mrs. Mimi" ?! Laughing out loud at that one, and trying to figure out which one is the "Mrs."!

Actually, I think I have it sussed: Mrs. Mimi is the one who thinks eight hooks in a row is A4+, when everyone clearly knows and agrees that ten hooks in a row is only A4. Talk about light.

My sincere and heartfelt apology to John Middendorf for dissing his route which only contained 72 holes at the time of the FA, and for my galling arithmetic error. I enjoyed climbing it, and there are at least three additional holes on the Whipper Will pitch, and one or two more on Walk The Plank pitch, which is now harder than it was on the FA.

Prod

Trad climber

Aug 23, 2011 - 05:37pm PT

I think someone old DMT who the shitters were. He was really insistant on knowing who they were for a while....

Just a guess.

Prod.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Aug 23, 2011 - 06:33pm PT

How many of the shitters are still alive?
Is there a curse?

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Aug 23, 2011 - 06:58pm PT

That would be the best part of the film. Following the shitters around, wondering if the curse was going to take them out.

G_Gnome

Trad climber

In the mountains... somewhere...

Aug 23, 2011 - 07:17pm PT

I know one of them sure seems to be cursed. I just can't think of any other reason that he looks and acts like he does.

survival

Big Wall climber

A Token of My Extreme

Aug 23, 2011 - 07:29pm PT

Will Mark and Richard be interviewed in the film?

Now THAT is a dang good question!

Dear film guy. You'll not be telling a very complete story without them now will you?

Pete, 8 hook moves in a row is A4+ in my book, and I'm the only one I have to answer to. Jeez.

Once upon a time in my neighborhood a single "body weight only" placement was considered A4. Since when did 10 hook moves in a row become the world wide standard?

Just curious.

tolman_paul

Trad climber

Anchorage, AK

Aug 23, 2011 - 07:50pm PT

I always thought the A4 and A5 rating required a sufficient number of pieces to zipper and a bad landing so that you'd either break bones or die if you pealed. 1/2 dozen bodyweight placements above a bomber piece and a clean fall would be at most A3.

I've zippered 3 or 4 pieces and grounded, but it was a soft landing so no way it was more than A2 due to the severity of fall. It did give me an appreciation for not being timid when driving pins, and to be robust when testing a placement. Now making those same moves 100 feet above a hatchet shaped blade of granite would be a totally different game.

Russ Walling

Gym climber

Poofter's Froth, Wyoming

Aug 23, 2011 - 08:15pm PT

Not to detract from the drama of WOS, but here is an old explanation of aid ratings from rec.climbing way back in 1995:

New Wave Aid Ratings

Brent Ware <ware@ligo.xxxxxxxxxx>
writes on Mon Aug 4 16:59:24 PDT 1997 :

From: info@fishproducts.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: was: Aid Harness Setup, Now: Aid Ratings
Date: 30 Nov 1995 03:40:51 -0500

Here's how I understand it......present day ratings for routes done in the last 10 years.

A0 - Full on bomber and easy to find. Fall potential no more than 20-30 feet. Ex: Nose, Salathe, Leaning Tower, South Face of the
Column. etc.

A1 - Easy to find and easy to place. A basic no brainer, but if you do many dumb things in a row, you will go up to 40 feet. Ex:
Lurking Fear (A1+), Prow, Muir (A1+)

A2 - Here is where it starts. Placements could be hard to find and or awkward to place. Fall potential of up to 60 feet or more. Ex:
Shield, Mescalito (A2+), Aquarian, Tangerine Trip, Horse Chute (A2+)

A3 - Big whippers hiding out here. Many tricks are used and everything is suspect. Rock is usually loose and bad landings may
appear. Fall potential of up to 100 feet, and possible dismemberment, but not death due to hitting things. Ex: NA Wall (A3-) Iron
Hawk (A3+), P.O. Wall, Zenyatta (A3+)

A4 - Bombs away. All known tricks are used including exhaling to make yourself lighter. This is where lids pop off and sane humans
never venture. Fall potential: 150-200 feet with a bad landing almost assured. Wear a helmet for the open casket hoe-down. Ex:
Native Son. GulfStream (A4+), Born Under a Bad Sign, Surgeon General, South Seas (A4-), Space.

A5 - Lights out. Count on multi-hour leads with about 6-10 being the norm. Nobody falls here because you only get one. No rookies
allowed. Every piece is shitty, all the rock is bad, and you always hit things. Fall potential: Pull the pitch. Ex: Scorched Earth?,
Sheep Ranch (A5-), Get Whacked, Plastic Surgery Disaster.

Of course all of the above are subjective blah blah...... Most of the examples are either confirmed by someone here at FP or by the FA
party. This is real and scary. Enjoy!
TTFN, Russ

2011 addendum: Man the new gear sure has cut pitch time and difficulty down. Failiens, Beaks, Tomahawks, drilled placements etc have cut the hard lead times in half!

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Aug 23, 2011 - 09:05pm PT

by that rating system ZM would be A2 as of June of this year.

Russ Walling

Gym climber

Poofter's Froth, Wyoming

Aug 23, 2011 - 09:24pm PT

by that rating system ZM would be A2 as of June of this year.

Maybe it is?

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Aug 23, 2011 - 09:29pm PT

Falls are a frequent reminder of a free climbs rating. In aid climbing, falls, the gut of the aid rating system, are much rarer, especially in the upper grades. Lots of A5 pitches, not many broken bodies-what gives?

Russ Walling

Gym climber

Poofter's Froth, Wyoming

Aug 23, 2011 - 09:38pm PT

JIm, aid climbing is much less forgiving than free climbing, especially at the higher grades of each. Ergo, aid climbers toying with the higher numbers are better at the craft than a comparable free climber. Hard aid guys just don't fall, mostly due to the dire consequences of rippage.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Aug 23, 2011 - 09:41pm PT

It is a rather compressed system, in that 90% or more of aid routes would fall in the A0 or A1 rating.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Aug 23, 2011 - 09:44pm PT

I understand the consequences of an aid fall, its one of the reasons our route on Torre Egger has not see a second attempt, but the defintion of hard aid is based on fall potential. If there is no empirical evidence vis a vis falls, how are A4 and A 5 differentiated?

Russ Walling

Gym climber

Poofter's Froth, Wyoming

Aug 23, 2011 - 09:45pm PT

Mighty, that is because most aid routes are piss easy. It is the logistics that are the n00b killer, not the actual aid per-say. Toss in a full helping of weak minds, and it's over boys, we're going down.

To edit for Jim:

If there is no empirical evidence vis a vis falls, how are A4 and A 5 differentiated?

You can tell what will hold and extrapolate out the potential fall. You know when you are going to go big if you pull a piece, and you also know if you are going to go dead. That is the difference.