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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 30, 2015 - 07:27am PT
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I was a union carpenter for 37 years. I don't care how you slice it, for a working person, a guy swinging a hammer, the union can't be beat. Excellent apprenticeship/training programs, health insurance and a good pension. The highest skilled, most productive craftsmen will migrate to the highest paid positions - a union project! I apprenticed under some amazing craftsmen, that were always in high demand and paid above scale. Unions aren't perfect by a long shot, but for the construction business its not a bad way to go.
Joron.... exactly.
Back to the Topic.
I was at one of my favorite liquor stores, picking up some ale. This is one of those stores run by Mideastern types (They are from Syria)... we always talk mideast politics.........
Every one of those Syrians, all 5 of them, is going to vote Trump...... "My friend Guy... we can't let a bunch of those people into our country..."
maybe they know something.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Dec 30, 2015 - 07:35am PT
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guyman posted Every one of those Syrians, all 5 of them, is going to vote Trump...... "My friend Guy... we can't let a bunch of those people into our country..."
Did you ask them if they support Assad? Dollars to donuts they do.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Dec 30, 2015 - 07:47am PT
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Jim, Stewart, that London quote was meant as a general observation, not aimed at anyone here.
My main gripe with 21st century unions is they seemed to have stopped any sort of organizing work.
Unions did too good a job, perhaps. The workers forgot what had come before them, the sacrifices made by those in the past. They forgot that people fought and died to bring them to a better place. They took their prosperity for granted, and so they started voting for Reagan and his ilk.
The ILWU does a very good job of letting their members know their history, and that's one of the reasons they remain strong and united to this day.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Dec 30, 2015 - 08:03am PT
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I was a union carpenter for 37 years. I don't care how you slice it, for a working person, a guy swinging a hammer, the union can't be beat.
times have changed UNIONS are going out no matter how you SLICE it..
Have friend who is a principle for Simi Valley high school and would love to fire some of those lazy union teachers.. anything is an excuse when it comes to those Average Joe's that cant get to work on time..
UNIONS are bad for business.. in my opinion it's Un American..
creates a "BOILING Frog"..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Dec 30, 2015 - 08:25am PT
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UNIONS are bad for business.. in my opinion it's Un American..
You're wrong. America is a UNION of states. When farmers opening up new land built a barn, did they do it themselves? No! They had a barn raising party where all their neighbors came together to help him out.
In 1776 we told those English elites to get the hell out. This new wave of Robber Barons is what's unAmerican.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Dec 30, 2015 - 08:31am PT
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You're wrong.
it's kinda funny where I work you have to get special security clearance.. I watch the union workers stand outside the building they are not ALLOWED inside the special rooms..
gary get ur head outta past UNIONS are on the way out.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Dec 30, 2015 - 08:40am PT
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Union membership in the private sector below 7%. Lowest level since 1932.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Dec 30, 2015 - 08:43am PT
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"When farmers opening up new land built a barn, did they do it themselves? No! They had a barn raising party where all their neighbors came together to help him out."
SSSSSOOOOOCCCCIIIIAAAALLLLISSSSSMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!169
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 30, 2015 - 09:29am PT
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Did you ask them if they support Assad? Dollars to donuts they do.
HDDJ.... Wrong. They are Armenians whose ancestors survived the Turkish genocide and ended up in Syria. They are Christians.... and they are no fans of Assad.
I think if you know anything about the mid east you will see that things are not as simple as our media and politico types wish you to believe.
And Pyro.... IMHO Unions are good for some things. For example, you need to build a skyscraper ( i'm sure Mr. Trump can explain better than I) the company building the skyscraper needs about 100 welders who know their sh#t. They need to know their sh#t cause the big ass company that will insure the skyscraper demands that the skyscraper be built correctly (will not fall down due to sloppy welds- if Weld-It was around he could really explain)... anyway its much cheaper for the company building the skyscraper to pay sky-hi wages because these are temporary workers who will not be needed when the building is completed. So its really cheaper to pay a ton and be assured of quality work. This is a good example of a private company and another private company doing business.
Now the other type of Union are Public Unions. These suck, mostly because they provide nothing similar to what the welders provide. (Hi-skilled, trained... at union expense, temporary workers) For example: The fireman's union, Cop Union, DWP Union, these are all skilled and dangerous jobs that require lots of training. These folks got together and agree to go on strike if they don't get their way ... they do and the Politicians (elected officials) negotiate with them and it gets worked out and everybody goes back to work... for as long as "the contract" is in effect. This worked out OK for a long time, but things start to get out of wack when the Politicians use $$$$$$$ they they get from the Unions to get elected. These bought and paid for politicians will now agree to just about any demands these Unions make even if a CPA can show that the pay, benefits and terms of the agreement will run the public (your city, county, state gov) out of $$$$$$ in the future. This just what that skumbag Grey Davis did when he was governor.... he gave away the farm, so to speak, with zero regard for us taxpayers and the future.
And lastly, The absolute worst Unions are the ones where the unionized members are low skilled or have a certain level of EDUCATION..... The teachers, DMV workers, EHS professionals, Architects, Environmental Scientists, Burger Flippers and lots of general government workers (folks on the GS scale) .... these types come up with all sorts justification as to why they deserve MORE $$$$$ and better benefits that people doing the same work as they do in what is called "the private sector" .....
Pretty simple No?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Dec 30, 2015 - 09:34am PT
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Guyman posted HDDJ.... Wrong. They are Armenians whose ancestors survived the Turkish genocide and ended up in Syria. They are Christians.... and they are no fans of Assad.
I think if you know anything about the mid east you will see that things are not as simple as our media and politico types wish you to believe.
Most Christians in Syria support Assad because he provided them relative safety compared with the alternatives. I have had a number of patients who were Syrians, Christians and very supportive of Assad for that reason.
Guyman posted Now the other type of Union are Public Unions. These suck, mostly because they provide nothing similar to what the welders provide. (Hi-skilled, trained... at union expense, temporary workers)
Um...Unions provide their members with representation for collective bargaining. That's the whole point. They serve their members.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 30, 2015 - 09:36am PT
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A barn building is not Socialism, it's cooperation.... and in places where this is/was common.... you owed a debt to all of the people who came and helped put up that barn.
Socialism is where the government will force you to go help out....
there is a difference
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 30, 2015 - 09:38am PT
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Um...Unions provide their members with representation for collective bargaining. That's the whole point. They serve their members.
Quite true.... only their members and not anybody else.
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Norton
Social climber
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Dec 30, 2015 - 09:40am PT
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Great all American video, Mono!
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Dec 30, 2015 - 09:49am PT
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Thanks, mono. Really funny (and accurate).
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Dec 30, 2015 - 09:49am PT
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guyman posted Socialism is where the government will force you to go help out....
Socialism is a form of government/economics where the government owns the means of production.
guyman continued Quite true....[unions] only their members and not anybody else.
As opposed to the companies that the employ the workers which are selfless organizations that only serve the greater good?
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 30, 2015 - 10:10am PT
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As opposed to the companies that the employ the workers which are selfless organizations that only serve the greater good?
HDDJ.... where in the world do you get the idea that companies work for the greater good? Come on now, I know your smarter than that.
Companies exist to make money.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Dec 30, 2015 - 10:57am PT
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Pyro.... IMHO Unions are good for some things. For example, you need to build a skyscraper ( i'm sure Mr. Trump can explain better than I) the company building the skyscraper needs about 100 welders who know their sh#t. They need to know their sh#t cause the big ass company that will insure the skyscraper demands that the skyscraper be built correctly
guyman happy new year!
my buddy Sam is a commercial under water construction worker and they aint got no UNION.. and he comes over to the house spending money left and right.. as for the Skyscraper builders just pay em what they are worth and use an HR dept. plenty of laws out there these days to ensure quality work place environment for the so called big bad union workers..
UNIONS are outta style and bad for Business.
we need to make money
im gonna invent a big machine that build a skyscraper in weeks with 1/2 the workers.. it'll put the skyscraper union outta business.
here is an article from October where Obama was talking about automation unions etc.. he'll probably create a UNION for robots..
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 30, 2015 - 11:09am PT
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Pyro... Hi, Happy New Years to you....
You missed the point about Union guys being TEMPORARY workers. The skyscraper building company doesn't need a HR dept cause they just call the Union Hall.
It works for them and the welders.
Now your friend might just work for a company who wishes to have there own staff. Lots of reasons for this.... its a choice the company makes.
I know you work in a really capitalistic business, making chips is a great example of innovation, creativity and production in action. No way a Union Shop Steward can call the shots in that environment. The yield would quickly go to about 5%. LOL
Take care my friend.
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