Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
May 11, 2018 - 07:42am PT
|
True evolution of consciousness is checked by the limited constraints of material only consciousness.
One will be reborn in various material bodies, again and again, to suffer the pangs of birth, death, disease and old age along with the material body as the house of pain at the hands of material only consciousness.
The consciousness of the material mind will carry one into the next material body according to what the mind is fixed on at the time of death ....
|
|
JohnnyDont
Mountain climber
|
|
|
May 11, 2018 - 09:31am PT
|
The article below pretty well sums up my views on the self and consciousness. Duckman is spewing some serious woo here. I don't believe the intelligent class relies on fairy tales, mysticism, and other completely unproven and unprovable woo. The soul is an invented concept with no basis in reality. Comfort for death throughout the centuries. Once you realize it's woo, your life takes on a more relevant, enjoy every moment attitude. Me doth think RubberDucky protests too much. How is it that you know anything you claim with no evidence? Just more Trump BS, I say it and it's true. This country has become embarrassing in its inability to critically think about any and every issue.
My experience with psychedelics is that they can open the mind and bring you to realizations that never would be possible without them. Universal truths. Powerful self realization and peace.The interconnectedness of every living and nonliving on the earth and in the universe. You don't need universal concsiousness to see it.
https://qz.com/1196408/scientists-studying-psilocybin-accidentally-proved-the-self-is-an-illusion/
fact based evidence is all we have as humans, but it's pretty great and wonderous. anything beyond facts based is just throwing shyt at a wall.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
May 11, 2018 - 12:15pm PT
|
The soul is an invented concept with no basis in reality.
The soul is an absolute bonafide proven fact.
The modern brainwashed devolved scientists are the real wooo about sh!t they know nothing about but masquerade themselves as so-called authorities .....
This country has become embarrassing in its inability to critically think about any and every issue.
And you are the guilty one that relies only on your gross limited material consciousness using only your limited gross material senses .......
|
|
Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
May 11, 2018 - 01:43pm PT
|
the intelligent class
I took that class in high school. The teacher was an ass.
|
|
jogill
climber
Colorado
|
|
|
May 11, 2018 - 03:13pm PT
|
psychedelics or meditation seem to produce strong converts.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
May 11, 2018 - 03:24pm PT
|
Having done a lot of both my experience was one yielded a lot of much-needed awakenings and insights and the other discipline and acceptance which where sorely lacking.
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
|
May 12, 2018 - 09:34am PT
|
jogill: psychedelics or meditation seem to produce strong converts.
Uhnnn. Well, maybe.
“Conversion” implies dropping some beliefs and doctrines for others that one shifts to. If, on the other hand, one is simply dropping beliefs and doctrines themselves (ala, not taking them seriously or concretely), then “conversion” might be a wrong description.
Largo has repeatedly pointed out the notion of awareness without content. Content would seem to be institutionalized beliefs (doctrines). It’s that darned “emptiness” thing again that you repeatedly ridicule.
I can’t seem to communicate how this kind of thing is NOT an experience of content. It is the platform for content (as it were).
I’d say that anyone who sees that directly for themselves is changed. Noticing tends to bring on more noticing, and one starts having that rather empty view of substantiality everywhere in everything, "off the pillow," in the most mundane situations.
There’s nothing special about it—which is where most seekers (and bystanders) get it completely wrong.
|
|
MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
|
|
|
May 12, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
|
If, on the other hand, one is simply dropping beliefs and doctrines themselves...
You are a strong convert to this program/path.
The fish moves around but leaving the water is much harder.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
May 12, 2018 - 06:47pm PT
|
Is the use of drugs to expand your consciousness worth it if you can't access it without them? Where being in your own skin in the now with no need to do or think anything just being aware is our natural state the way we were made to be! Drugs if you are in pain or sick help but takes us away from are natural state of well-being! Just being open and aware like when you are watching a movie but the TV is off, hee hee!
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
|
|
|
May 12, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
|
But you can experience it without drugs. That's the whole point of meditation.
|
|
jogill
climber
Colorado
|
|
|
May 12, 2018 - 09:14pm PT
|
It’s that darned “emptiness” thing again that you repeatedly ridicule
No no no. I have accepted that there is that "empty stage" before content. And that one's "I" is a construct. And that distinctions between physical objects fade under the right conditions. These last two I have "seen" for myself on occasion. I meditated for several years in the late 1950s.
What I have repeatedly asked is Where does one go from there? Wandering down the twisted path of quantum mechanics and trying to fashion or recognize links between meditative emptiness and virtual particles or probability waves or creation by consciousness takes the investigator into metaphysical labyrinths. "Form is emptiness and emptiness is form" may be a terminal experience.
Consciousness produces physical reality? How about some experiments? And yes, I know that the sensation of "red", for instance, is a product of mind, but is the little toy fire truck thus described also?
Pay no attention. Just babbling.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
May 12, 2018 - 09:21pm PT
|
Where does one go from there?
Creativity has no bounds!
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
May 12, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
|
But you can experience it without drugs. That's the whole point of meditation.
You can experience some things without the drugs, but for myself, I would never have emerged from a very unaware and withdrawn place without a therapeutic three-month/every third-day course of LSD which actually got and kept me 'out' to where meditating could even be an option. Climbing was also essential in changing my entire life during that same period.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
May 12, 2018 - 10:06pm PT
|
Being made in the image of God is our consciousness but we live it out in time with a finite body. So we have only now in a twenty four hour day to use our life gift so follow your heart and enjoy!
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
May 12, 2018 - 10:18pm PT
|
My flip to atheism happened one day when I was twelve. My mother had been hospitalized for an extended period again and it just occurred to me while sitting at home in my room that if I was really made in God's image like the church said, then crikey, god must be a lot like me. But the problem with that was I figured I wouldn't do almost anything the way God has done it which led me to the conclusion God wasn't at all like me and in fact, must not even exist.
I mean for crying out loud why good an evil? That's like a choice between apple and hemlock juice. Why not good and better, say a choice between apple juice and chocolate milkshakes? It just seemed so patently stupid at the time once I started thinking about it.
So it took me maybe all of fifteen minutes to become a devout atheist and one that's been a born-again atheist every single day since.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
May 12, 2018 - 10:27pm PT
|
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
May 13, 2018 - 06:52am PT
|
Healyje -- "My flip to atheism happened one day when I was twelve."
There was no flip.
You were as clueless in your past life as you are still now and everything just plain carried over ......
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
|
May 13, 2018 - 09:14am PT
|
Happy Mother’s Day, people!
Jogill,
Cheers. I have a much better understanding of your thoughts now. All reasonable. Sorry for my misunderstanding. (You’re not babbling--or perhaps we are all babbling.)
We need to leave very soon for a drive up north to Phoenix for the in-laws' Annual Family Mother’s Day pageant at some appointed restaurant. I’ll respond later.
|
|
jogill
climber
Colorado
|
|
|
May 13, 2018 - 11:44am PT
|
I suspect this is what JL has sought all along - a way forward that doesn't devolve into purely philosophical ramblings. Maybe not.
I'm still pondering pregeometry.
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
|
May 13, 2018 - 07:13pm PT
|
jogill,
Even without re-reading your post, I think I get what you’ve said. I should be able to explain it. “Why?” “What’s the point?”
I can only get poetic. There is an aesthetic to it, in it. It could be perfect grace. Everything goes together in a way that is like . . . what? Belgian Chocolate? A dual-carb, over-bored, balanced and blueprinted 327 in a yellow 1966 Corvette? The climb where the boulder or mountain climbed YOU?
A perfect moment.
What draws you forward? A perfect moment does it for me.
Cheers, buddy.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!