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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 10, 2018 - 03:27pm PT
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Wayno: if you called me a Cynic and thought of me as sour, O.K. I'm just trying to make it seem sweeter. Can you fault a person for trying to sweeten something they see as sour?
No, no, not you. You hardly seem to be the cynical type, IMO. One could say that there is no sourness and no sweetness, either.
Ed: so you're saying that maybe the map is the territory? . . . our perception of the world is wired into us at a fundamental level.
Arguing that the map is *not* the territory presents a puzzle or conundrum, IMO—if there is only one territory (i.e., reality). Maps vs. territories are dualistic.
Everything is the territory. What could possibly be *outside* “The Territory?” Whatever arises in consciousness could be said to be a fractal of reality.
Words.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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May 10, 2018 - 04:24pm PT
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Words.
The way I try to use words on this thread, the result is a crapshoot. I'm not very good as a writer but I try to get my point across anyway. I try to use humor to put things in a different light and because it is my defense mechanism of choice. I could very easily go off half-cocked as that is in my nature but to be more pleasant and less confrontational I attempt humor. I may understand and be misunderstood, isn't that what happens when we limit our communication to only words typed on a computer, especially when we normally use so much more?
I see a big difference between a discussion and an argument. I choose discussion. I came across this line many years ago and it has become a sort of maxim for me:
The argumentative defense of any proposition is inversely proportional to the truth contained.
It implies much to consider and I like that math is involved.
Be
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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May 10, 2018 - 04:42pm PT
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... neurons that fire in a strikingly regular hexagonal pattern as animals explore their environment. This lattice of points is believed to facilitate spatial navigation, similarly to the gridlines on a ma
Many pre-literate oral traditions, such as Homer's epics, were frequently based upon a hexametric foundation. I've always thought that the purpose for this went beyond the merely mnemonic. Could the hexameter recitations help to facilitate spatial constructions revealed in the narrative? A sort of oral cinema?
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=hexameter+and+neuronal+spatial+organization&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart
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WBraun
climber
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May 10, 2018 - 04:58pm PT
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C'mon Wayno, don't be such a modern pc pussy.
Just tell em all that they're just st000pid modern gross materialists, lol ......
:-)
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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May 10, 2018 - 05:00pm PT
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We know from super learning that making a bodily motion when you memorize is more efficient than sitting still and pronouncing words helps too. Perhaps the hexameter structure was a memory device based on a physical principle based on a brain principle?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 10, 2018 - 05:10pm PT
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I suspect it's probably a case of more learning channels/modes results in the creation of more broadly distributed memory residence patterns and represent more retrieval options/pathways/triggers as well.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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May 10, 2018 - 05:10pm PT
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There are a few studies like the above. But I have not found similar studies to link hexametric poetry in the facilitating of spatial constructions within the brain.
Hexametric poems were frequently used in The Tales of Genji were they not?
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WBraun
climber
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May 10, 2018 - 05:30pm PT
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//I scrutinized a discontinuous system of features that most people would consider a lark, an incomplete line.
But I knew that the universe is anything but random.
Everything—everything—is the effect of a cause and those micro features were there for a reason.
I had long recognized a universal “superconscious,” a subject I had discussed at length with the theoretical physicist and visionary free climber Frank Sacherer.
One evening sitting around the great fireplace in the lodge lounge,
he told me that he and another physicist in Switzerland had,
within three months of each other, come to pursue the same thesis.//
~ Jim Bridwell from his write-up "The Sea of Dreams on El Cap"
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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May 10, 2018 - 05:30pm PT
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Thanks for the laugh, Werner. I sometimes wish I was a modern pc pussy. Life would be so much easier. As much as I like how you do it, I couldn't pull it off as well.
Do you remember a discussion we had in person, probably 1983 or so, the only real discussion I ever had with you? I treasure it.
I had long recognized a universal “superconscious,” a subject I had discussed at length with the theoretical physicist and visionary free climber Frank Sacherer.
Interesting quote. I mentioned in one of the Bridwell threads of hanging out with Bridwell at the Oakdale Fest. We had something besides climbing in common. We both have read the Urantia Book. The whole thing. That is where I read the quote I posted upthread. He is the only other person I have ever met that has actually read the whole thing. We had a great discussion. I treasure that one too.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 10, 2018 - 05:50pm PT
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Bridwell: . . . he told me that he [Sacherer] and another physicist in Switzerland had, within three months of each other, come to pursue the same thesis.
This happens so very often that it can hardly be dismissed as mere serendipity. Synchronicity? Intellectual convergences due to socializations and / or institutionalizations? Superconsciousness? Omega points? Simply talking to each other? It’s eerie and interesting.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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May 10, 2018 - 06:11pm PT
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Superconsciousness?
It’s eerie and interesting.
Indeed! The concepts of subconsciousness and super-consciousness have always fascinated me. Well not always, but you get it. I have lots of questions and I read stuff, but eventually, if your interest is still alive, you try and do the science yourself as Werner exhorts. This is where the "inner life" can get ever so eerie and interesting. Up until the point that you really don't want to talk about it much but by then you are "hooked".
And yes sycorax, if you are lurking, I suck at commas.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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May 10, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
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Isaac Newton and Gottfried Leibniz
Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace
A lot of other minds laid the groundwork.
Albert Einstein
no easy explanation
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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May 10, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
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A lot of other minds laid the groundwork.
And for that I am grateful.
What if Maxwell had met Tesla?
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WBraun
climber
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May 10, 2018 - 08:36pm PT
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Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace
Just plain guessers that missed the most important part and mislead all humanity except the intelligent class.
The intelligent class was correct from the very beginning.
The intelligent class does NOT come from this material universe and exists even after the entire dissolution of the material manifestation.
The material manifestation is only 1/4 of the whole.
The gross materialists are completely clueless beyond their own tiny inferior manifestation .....
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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May 10, 2018 - 08:41pm PT
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The intelligent class was correct from the very beginning.
Ipso facto.
The inferior gross materialist has no dispute with the intelligent class.
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WBraun
climber
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May 10, 2018 - 08:45pm PT
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yeah they do.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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May 10, 2018 - 08:50pm PT
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WBraun
climber
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May 10, 2018 - 08:51pm PT
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If there was no dispute there would never have been birth ......
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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May 10, 2018 - 08:52pm PT
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 10, 2018 - 09:05pm PT
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Wayno: . . . do the science yourself . . . .
There you go.
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