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tooth
Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
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Oct 14, 2009 - 10:50pm PT
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So far none of your quotes have been saying what you are inferring, that the vaccine is made to kill people.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 14, 2009 - 11:01pm PT
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Here you go Klimmer straight from the CDC (though I assume you trust them not a whole lot, so I'm not sure why I'm bothering for you, this is really more for others.)
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm
Third bullet down:
"A total of 76 laboratory confirmed 2009 H1N1 pediatric deaths have been reported to CDC since April."
Fifth bullet down:
"Almost all of the influenza viruses identified so far are 2009 H1N1 influenza A viruses."
And the second bullet:
"Total influenza hospitalization rates for laboratory-confirmed influenza are higher than expected for this time of year for adults and children. And for children 5-17 and adults 18-49 years of age, hospitalization rates from April – October 2009 exceed average flu season rates (for October through April)."
And as far as general flu vaccine effectiveness goes, here's another good source:
http://www.cdc.gov/FLU/PROFESSIONALS/VACCINATION/effectivenessqa.htm
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2009 - 11:04pm PT
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So far none of your quotes have been saying what you are inferring, that the vaccine is made to kill people.
Yea. Big Pharma is really gonna come out and say or advertise . . .
"Hey, come and get this overpriced vaccine for a hyped pandemic laced with Mercury designed to highten your immune system against H1N1, but really it is designed to weaken your immune system perhaps even kill you. Yep, we are selling tonnes of this stuff and our profits are going through the roof!"
Like that is going to ever happen.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2009 - 11:09pm PT
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Stevep,
Third bullet down:
"A total of 76 laboratory confirmed 2009 H1N1 pediatric deaths have been reported to CDC since April."
Is this significantly higher than any other Flu season? What are the typical number of seasonal flu deaths pediatric age, middle age, and old age? What are the numbers to compare it to?
And the second bullet:
"Total influenza hospitalization rates for laboratory-confirmed influenza are higher than expected for this time of year for adults and children. And for children 5-17 and adults 18-49 years of age, hospitalization rates from April – October 2009 exceed average flu season rates (for October through April)."
Again, what are the actual numbers to compare it to? This kind of information needs to be graphed with one year compared to another to really know the truth of this statement. Perhaps they are right, but show me, show all of us the actual data and then graph it so I/we can do the comparison.
The CDC should be able to do this rather than just making statements. It is statistical science after all. Show me the data.
I have shown that the WHO changed the definition of pandemic, now allowing any disease to easily fit the new definition, thereby automatically increasing artificially the number of pandemics. Was this done on purpose? I believe so. Makes sense from a WHO Big Pharma corrupt kind of way.
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woof!
Trad climber
texas
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Oct 14, 2009 - 11:17pm PT
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by the way the vaccines are NOT Kosher
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2009 - 11:31pm PT
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The graph shows that number of influenza like illnesses are up from previous years from week 15 onward compared to recent years.
Edit: However, this data is for 2008-2009. We need to see 2009-2010!!! In other words this flu season.
The table of deaths for this year so far, I can't compare to another year. It would be nice to see this and they could graph it over the weeks also as they did for number of flu illnesses. I would like to see the comparison of number of deaths due to Flu over the last few years.
They could also do it by age groups. This would be interesting to see.
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Forest
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 15, 2009 - 12:41am PT
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Pardon me for injecting actual documented information into this paranoid fearfest, but if you're really concerned about Thimerosal (the preservative that has mercury), you can get the vaccine without it. Here are the different types, and which has it as a preservative, which has trace amount, and which has none: http://answers.flu.gov/questions/4801
What are the specific ingredients in each of the 2009 H1N1 vaccines?
CSL Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine (Shot)
A sterile suspension for intramuscular injection is supplied in two presentations:
0.5 mL preservative-free, single-dose, pre-filled syringe.
5 mL multi-dose vial containing ten doses.
Thimerosal, a mercury derivative, is added as a preservative; each 0.5 mL dose contains 24.5 micrograms (mcg) of mercury.
For detailed information, see CSL Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Patient Information (PDF-20 pages).
Novartis Vaccines & Diagnostics Limited 2009 Monovalent Vaccine (Shot)
A sterile suspension for intramuscular injection, is supplied in two presentations:
Prefilled single dose syringe, 0.5-mL. Thimerosal, a mercury derivative used during manufacture, is removed by subsequent purification steps to a trace amount (≤ 1 mcg mercury per 0.5-mL dose)
Multidose vial, 5-mL. Contains thimerosal, a mercury derivative (25 mcg mercury per 0.5-mL dose). Thimerosal is added as preservative.
For detailed information, see Novartis Vaccines & Diagnostics Limited 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Patient Information
Sanofi Pasteur 2009 Monovalent Vaccine (Shot)
Intramuscular injection is supplied in four presentations:
Prefilled syringe, 0.25 mL, no preservative; distinguished by a pink syringe plunger rod.
Prefilled syringe, 0.5 mL, no preservative.
Single-dose vial, 0.5 mL, no preservative.
Multi-dose vial, 5 mL, contains thimerosal, a mercury derivative, added as a preservative. Each 0.5 mL dose contains 25 mcg mercury.
For detailed information, see Sanofi Pasteur 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Patient Information (PDF-19 pages)
MedImmune 2009 Monovalent Vaccine (Spray)
Prefilled single-dose intranasal sprayer containing 0.2 mL suspension.
For detailed information, see MedImmune 2009 Monovalent Vaccine (Spray)Patient Information (PDF – 21 pages).
Last Reviewed: 10/07/2009
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tooth
Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
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Oct 15, 2009 - 01:44am PT
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No, but if that is the point you are trying to make, get quotes or data that supports that. Not research a physician did that does not set about to support or deny your claim.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Oct 15, 2009 - 02:04am PT
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For those interested (like me), I just looked up the dose of mercury in a shot versus the recommended daily max (0.1 microgram per kilogram of your body weight). http://www.epa.gov/mercury/exposure.htm
The short version is that the shot is equivalent to 3-4 days of maximum recommended mercury exposure.
In comparison, a 6 ounce portion of albacore tuna has more than twice as much mercury as the shot; about 60 micrograms of mercury in a 6-ounce portion. Which is why you shouldn't eat lots of high mercury fish - some info for avoiding mercury in fish (loads of details and links in each):
http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/index.asp
http://www.epa.gov/mercury/advisories.htm
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 15, 2009 - 02:43am PT
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oh Greg, you silly boy.... don't you know that the Tuna fish mercury is really a plot by the Submarineatti?! This is rather involved but first off it has to do with Omega 3, which you thought was good for you but actually represents the cube of Ω which you recall is the last letter in the Greek alphabet. The danger here was telegraphed in a Charlton Heston movie The Ωmega Man where he plays Jesus Christ... though he is among the last humans left after a biological war (!)... everyone else turns into something else... mostly hippies that look like they just crashed off a trip after mixing acid with reds.
The point is that things are actually going to be worse, at least Ω³ worse.
So after telling you the lie that Omega 3 oils (ya, that's the ticket) are good for you, the Submarineatti have you eating tons of tuna, causing you injest MERCURY! which happens to be the Alpha planet in our solar system! Where did that mercury come from, you might ask? well obviously not from coal burning power plants as the United Nations and the international liberal conspiracy would have you thinking... mercury is the swift footed god, no, I mean a god with Swifts in his feet! in other words AN ALIEN!
It is well known among a select group of unknown men that these aliens entered the solar system looking for ONE THING. They want to be entertained by heavy metal poisoned humans. Unfortunately, they really wanted that to be Heavy Metal, but they got here too early for Mötley Crüe and had to do something, so they went ahead to try to make everyone Mad as Hatters....
speaking of mad, that's where Charlton comes in, but never mind....
If you have any doubts about this you can take The Pyramid Texts and decrypt them using the method of "Equidistant Letter Sequences" to find the whole plot revealed by the ancient Egyptians, don't worry that they are written in hieroglyphs, just substitute in the word equivalents from an English translation, (hey, whatever dude...)!
The Egyptians were masons, too, so there is a great possibility of an even larger conspiracy...
All I know is you can pry my tuna from my cold dead hands...
now where did I put that tin foil (next is the Aluminum foil conspiracy...)
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Werd
Trad climber
Bay area
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Oct 15, 2009 - 03:03am PT
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F-in' brilliant Ed! LOL!!!
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Oct 15, 2009 - 03:11am PT
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I will not take the swine flu vaccine because it's already too late. Before the vaccine was even available here in AZ, both my wife and son came down with the H1N1 flu. I didn't get it. Lisa suffered for more than two weeks, whereas my son (being high risk, with asthma) fully recovered in two days, because he was prescribed Tamiflu. Having witnessed this, I can vouch for Tamiflu being some seriously good stuff.
Curt
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Oct 15, 2009 - 03:28am PT
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If you want to cut a fair percentage of the mercury out of your tuna, get the stuff that is not dolphin safe. Dolphins carry less mercury than tuna, thus, if your tuna is tainted with dolphin, it decreases the total amount of mercury present in the sample. Eat up men, and all praise Flipper for keeping you safe.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 15, 2009 - 03:31am PT
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The alt.med industry can't quote the Cochrane Reveiew enough relative to the supposed ineffectiveness of flu vaccines in general - but, that is not in any respect the real conclusion of the Cochrane Review. What they actually say is:
"Here is the Cochrane Review conclusion: Influenza vaccines are effective in reducing influenza A and B, but they do not work against the overwhelming majority of influenza-like illnesses."
Read that opening phrase: "Influenza vaccines are effective in reducing influenza A and B"
And then the closing phrase: "but they do not work against the overwhelming majority of influenza-like illnesses."
What do those two phrases in the Cochrane Review actually say? They say A) flu vaccines are effective against flu viruses and B) flu vaccines are not effective against non-flu viruses.
Well, frigging DUH!!!! Now that's a real astute observation right up there with saying "the measles vaccine is effective against measles, but does not work against polio, smallpox, and rabies" - as if it was supposed to. But the fact that the general population can't distinquish between the flu and similar symptoms caused by a myriad of other viruses doesn't in any way mean the flu vaccine isn't effective against flu - quite the opposite - it simply means most folks can't tell whether they have the flu, a common cold, or something else; and that's why we have tests for flu infection.
It was clearly a bad choice of words and phrasing that has been completely open to manipulation by certain media elements, the anti-vaccine crew, and the entire alt.med industry.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2009 - 03:46am PT
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You know the bottom line is going to be those who want to take care of their health and not inject every possible vaccine into their body, but rather do other none invasive ways to maintian their health and immune system as much as possible, and those who will shoot-up at a moments notice with no after thought whatsoever.
Many, many medical doctors agree with this sensible side of caution and consideration before you take any vaccine, especially vacccines that have not been thoroughly tested. This one has not. Many in the professional medical field do not want to take the vaccine. And sure and there are others who recommend you shoot everything that comes out, no matter what they concoct. There is the full spectrum.
I have posted many legitimate articles that question the safety of this flu vaccine. There are many who question the safety and do not want to take it. You have choice. Go for it. Its your life, its your body.
I will try as much as possible to do without when I can. If you feel absolute confidence in all vaccines fine. I know there have been problems and it can be shown time and time again. It is a crap-shoot. I have never gotten a flu shot. I have had plenty of vaccines over my lifetime. I probably will have more still. But this seasonal flu stuff, and shooting up every season, is way over the top in my opinion.
You have your freedom of choice. Shoot up all you want. But do not force others that do not want to. You have a right to say yes, and we have a right to say no.
Bible Code: You make fun, but you do so at your own peril. If you think it is random and just coincidence then you don't understand the shear improbability of it happening by accident. Full comprehensible sentences in Bible code regarding Swine Flu . . .
http://www.biblecodedigest.com/page.php/638
I have nothing in common with right wingers but maybe not wanting to take or be forced to take the Swine Flu vaccination. Wow, strange alliance.
Pig Pile
The bizarre alliance of the far left and far right against swine flu vaccinations.
By Christopher Beam
Posted Monday, Oct. 12, 2009, at 6:54 PM ET
http://www.slate.com/id/2232187/
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 15, 2009 - 05:59am PT
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Yeah, it's an alliance of fools against science. The only gambling aspect of the efficacy of the annual flu virus vaccines is a matter of do they accurately predict the prevalent strains in the coming season; there is no other aspect of the vaccines that is in question or a "crap shoot". Do they guess right every year? No, but they give it their best shot and do their best. Compared to the hell that is getting the flu - particularly for the young and elderly - the real gambling is deciding against getting vaccinated.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 15, 2009 - 08:28am PT
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Ed, I just about spewed my albacore sandwich all over the screen while reading that. :-)
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Peenemunde
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Oct 15, 2009 - 11:38am PT
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"Man, between global warming, evolution, vaccines and Bush orchestrating 911 - never in my life could I imagine so much crazy thinking in one place."
Welcome to Supertopo.
Juan
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