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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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It's absolutely mind-boggling way cool to even imagine free climbing like that up there on the big stone.
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kb
climber
novato,ca
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Pretty funny Dingus. I remember when you wrote that letter, can't say I thought it would resurface like it has. Don't ask Pitons because I'm not telling.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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peets™?
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2009 - 10:08am PT
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Coz,
Very well said ad i agree 100%.
It is easy to look back and say "shoulda, coulda, woulda,"
Simple fact is we wanted to honor the style of the first ascent and no add bolts to their line. That was the mission and if we got to free 50% we would be psyched. Turns out we got 99% and got bagged near the top and then bagged on the summit by very overzealous govt rangers.
This route is the highlight of my climbing life and i look at these pictures and remember good times, hard work and mystery everyday. Spending the time on the wall with two friends that i have spent a lot of time with makes these memories that much better to relive.
Everyone has a right to their opinion and that is what makes this country so great.
ks
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Happy Birthday Scott Cosgrove!!!
That's good you took some time to put those responses together, so thanks.
What climbers know or don't know about training always intrigues me, as my wife, being a distance runner, has so much science to fall back on. There is the idea that one would take a pulse in the morning and not train if it is too high; but, like climbers, even she and her friends rarely obey the white coat wisdom quite that well.
I was just reading Tommy's account of the Dihedral Free and also got that about getting weaker while free climbing on walls, vs sport. I think he says that's one reason, as a follow up to hard days working the route, he was bouldering afterwards. I enjoyed reading the account. It's good we got your article up here too!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Thanks again Scott, that's the kind of detail I thought might be interesting.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Thanks, guys!
Coz - do you still climb? Very much? Very hard? Obviously you gave it your all for a long long time to achieve what you did, and returning to that level of fitness might be next to impossible, or just too damn painful.
So do you compromise? Keep wobbling up easier grades? Or is it not as satisfying if you can't keep pulling the hard numbers?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Tar: "What climbers know or don't know about training always intrigues me"
Sometimes I wonder if there is any real science at all beyond "work harder for longer = get stronger".
Coz: "I would have done lots different training wise when I first started climbing, the first four years is when I did most on of the damage. "
I would like to hear more about what you would do different.
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James
climber
My twin brother's laundry room
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It took a lot for Rob and Justen to send that variation. Rob got even more obsessive than normal. He was working all week in Santa Cruz, then he would get off drive to Yosemite, hike the east ledges and immediately start mini-traxioning the pitches. They barely squeezed out their ascent. It was super proud. Rob and Justen pulled that thing together in part because of their determination and intense work ethic.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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West Face - 5.11b *** (20p: 4 5.11), FFA - Ray Jardine, Bill Price, 5/79
Salathe' Wall, all but 250' freed, Max Jones, Mark Hudon, Spring 1979
As a historical note here, Bill and Ray were hiking up to the West Face when we were up on the Salathe. They were yelling up good luck wishes and we yelled down the same.
We had told them that no matter what, after the Salathe, we were going up on the West Face.
When we saw Bill later, he told us how hard it was but we told him we wanted no further information, no rack, no topo, no nothing. We did the 2nd ascent about two day after getting off the Salathe.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Coz, Kurt, Epi, Max, Mark, Paul and Todd are all people whose climbing achievements I respect and were true visionaries. It is always futile to judge "style." It is a moving target and as Micronut pointed out of little concern except to the persons involved. Respect for the stone is the constant and something I think almost everyone shares.
The next generation of climbers will always be stronger and faster, having benefited from the achievements and innovations of those who came before.
I don't know Justin and many of the newer hardcore climbers, but they are carrying on the tradition and share the same passion for climbing that has motivated all of us (even us 5.9+ climbers too).
Awesome post and proud climb.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Coz wrote
"As I said earlier, you will live with your choices, your ethic and climbs become your past and legacy.... choose wisely, but more than anything believe in yourself, if you approve of your own deeds it matter not what other think. "
Good words. Is this a change of heart or do you believe different things about yourself than for other people?
I think the Muir was a fine attempt and hate even calling it that because I feel you did a LOT more to free the route than Caldwell, who comes along with extra talent to free what others have put the pioneering efforts and bolts into. Not putting him down but you guys stepped up to the plate.
Still, I think what nags at me is that previously on this thread, and incessantly on the South Face of Half Dome thread were some remarks that seemed very self-righteous putting other people and their climbs down as not sufficiently bold enough, even calling for the removal of their climb.
I kinda don't get it. You seems to strongly and firmly believe that it's somehow WAY bolder and more adventurous to spend a LONG, LONG time fixing lines from the ground up on an A2 trade route, cleaning and preprotecting pitches (with gear very, very close in the pictures) and claim that is a bold adventure and yet somebody rapping in from the top to work the moves is such a whole different animal that it deserves public reprobation?
Either way, you are sure to reach the top. Either way, you don't risk a fall that you haven't pre-programmed. Either way, you don't know if you can do the pitch until you work at it and succeed or fail? Is it just a mind game?
Power Bolting may have some style advantages over rap bolting, but it creates just as slippery a slope that could be misused by future parties. (and isn't that one of your big fears for the SFHD?)
If you were more "live and let live" I wouldn't be typing this here. There is no doubt you were a part of the pioneering of freeing the Big Walls. No doubt you climbed hard, and in other places, often bold.
But, correct me if I'm wrong, I keep reading this lamenting that says "We cared for style and boldness BITD, and the young guys today don't, they're light and are screwing things up)
It just ain't true. It's the same as it ever was. It would be easy to make the case that recent generations have done some things in way better style and bolder than your generation but that would fail to acknowledge the pioneering example setting.
Some are very bold and some aren't. The same climber even, like you, might rap bolt one day and run it out somewhere else.
So all I'm saying is, I'm feeling that the greatness of remembering the Muir climb feels somewhat sullied by the self-righteous air in which it is being presented. Let's face it, it was very hard, very pioneering and visionary, but it wasn't bold and you made many of the same tradeoffs between safety, sucess, and boldness that many modern parties continue to make. No foul unless you don't see that.
Peace
Karl
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WBraun
climber
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The next generation will be stronger?
Strength is measured by how hard one climbs and how hard the route became?
Those guys that climbed mount Everest in the 50's seemed way tougher and stronger.
The measure of strength now a days is so warped.
They first hiked to the top and planted their pride.
Next they climbed to the top and planted their pride.
Next they looked for more direct lines and planted their pride on top.
But in the end they all returned to the bottom ......
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Barbarian
Trad climber
stealth camping and hiding from the man
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I posted this on an earlier thread:
Climbing has rules...
Mine are:
1. Climb it from the bottom
2. Place no bolts
3. Pound no pins
4. Chip no holds
5. Leave no trace, no trash
6. If you can't climb it in style..leave it for someone else
These are the rules I've chosen to follow. I won't attempt to impose them on you.
My rules aren't better; they simply ensure that my climbing will have no impact on yours. Again, my choice.
That said I have no problem with Coz, Kurt and Eps cruise up the Shaft. I admire the fact that they went from the bottom up, and have no problem with the power bolting. They have been honest about their style and the choices that made. Those do not detract from some very bold and inspired climbing.
I have no problem with anyone who raps in and rehearses either. As was said earlier...its their novel, not mine! Personally, I'd like to go back to the Nose....haven't been on it since 1980. If it doesn't go all free and in a day for me (and it won't), I'll still consider it a proud effort if it goes using my rules above.
Climb on ....and thanks for a great set of pictures and the stories behind them.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Werner wrote
"Those guys that climbed mount Everest in the 50's seemed way tougher and stronger.
The measure of strength now a days is so warped. "
Humans aren't so different and yet, out of pride, each generation has a tendency to put down the other.
Lots of exceptions to this I'm sure.
Were the 50 guys really stronger and tougher? I'd hate to climb Everest with wool but I'd hate to do it without O2 either. I'd hate to climb the Nose with only a few pins and nasty ropes, but I'd hate to have to do it free in a day.
Same as it ever was. Standards go up and now people train and do nutrition instead of just boldly going where noone has gone before.
There is no superior generation, just some outstanding individuals and changing circumstances and culture in which to do it in
Peace
Karl
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WBraun
climber
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There is no superior generation.
Oh yes there was.
No long ago there were people who could take your pulse and knew exactly what was wrong with your body and how to treat it.
Just by taking your pulse.
No one can do it today anymore. No one.
All inferior methods now.
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pedge
Trad climber
SW
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Mr. Coz, I appreciate your taking the time to repeat your perspective on the approach to the climb and how it suited(suits) you and your own climbing ambitions. I wish more people had that sort of clarity about why they are climbing in a certain manner, what they are trying to get out of it and how they measure their own success.
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WBraun
climber
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Bump for the Kid and the coz .... hahahaha
Coz remembers? ,,, when we were on that route at ribbon falls near the top. Three different ways to go. Finally coz gets finds the right way and eats the dirt.
The dirt was all over your face and in your teeth. I was laughing so hard cause you had that funny look on your face.
Hahaha
And now back to all your Muir wall epics .....
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Hey Karl - coz don't need no rope *
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