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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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A masterful nailing of LEB by Dirt. Well done man! Of course the beast won't digest this and it goes right out the other ear, but as a spectator I applaud your work.
Dirt wrote
"NO Lois, I try to base my actions on rational thought. I don;t try to find a hidden meaning or agenda in what people say.
If someone says they are for torture, I have to take them at their word until they demonstrate otherwise.
YOU on the other hand refuse to believe them, because you know in your heart they don't really mean it.
BUT, when someone else tells you they won't tax capital gains until the $250K point, you immediately know they are lying.
Again, what nonsense."'
this is about the time when a certain point of internet debate needs to be invoked. The loising point!
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=497677
Read it
peace
Karl
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Oh yes, the Loising Point. We have indeed reached it.
You are correct sir!
Did you make an entry for THE LOISING POINT in Wikipedia yet?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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LOL, indeed you are NOT rational.
Refusing to face facts and deal with contradictions in your thinking is the opposite of rational.
Have fun fiddling while Rome burns.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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So Fatty, how does it feel to be a member of the gang that made the USA a torture friendly nation?
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jstan
climber
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OK. So you are not holding the equities in an IRA. Reading your post I got
that they were in an IRA, and so my reply. The after tax money that you
put in a an IRA is part of your "basis" and that is not taxed on
distribution but that basis is allocated pro rata over all your IRA
accounts to whatever distribution amount you take. As i understand it,
again i am not a professional, you won't have equities in an IRA "that
were bought with after tax money". Don't know how that would happen.
And on distribution any gain would be taxed at regular rates.
I return to this because if you are wrong you will be unpleasantly
surprised when you go to take a distribution. All of this inefficiency and
complexity goes back to Richard Nixon.
Until Nixon started taxing interest on savings accounts, saving for
retirement and saving in general made a lot of sense. But he was a
liberal so what can you expect from him?
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drgonzo
Trad climber
east bay, CA
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This guy lose? No way!
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jstan
climber
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Political discussion as entertainment.
Infotainment
Wartainment
Haven't seen taxtainment, yet.
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scarcollector
climber
CO
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RE:
Fattrad suggests, "... my definition of torture is when permanent injury is incurred. Waterboarding does not qualify in my book."
So getting raped up the a*# (with lube, of course) would not be "torture" to you?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Wait a second Fatty....before you said that torture WORKS and so we should do it. Now you are trying to argue that waterboarding isn't torture because (in your completely inexpert medical opinion) it causes no permanent damage?
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howlostami
Trad climber
Southern Tier, NY
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Does permanent mental injury count?
I feel like people are getting hung up on the "torture" word. The fact is that Gitmo and the way people get treated and the purpose of it gives me the willy's and I don't want to be associated with and protected by those tactics. It's a shitty world and that's the confusing part, the line between morality and necessity is really blurry.
I am biting the hand that feeds me, no doubt about it, and I'm sure the government has plenty of secrets I'm better off not knowing about, I just have a hard time feeling good about the land of the free and home of the brave knowing what our government is doing down there. The whole thing makes me sad.
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howlostami
Trad climber
Southern Tier, NY
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Torture: Do unto enemy combatants what you would want them to do unto your POWs.
I understand that the war is assymentric, and we can't expect the enemy to hold themselves to any set of moral guidelines, but that doesn't mean we sell out our own morals.
German POW's were treated well during WWII, did that positively impact out ability to normalize relations after the war?
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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"Waterboarding does not qualify in my book."
Lets have some fun at the Face Lift.
10 to 1 of Jeff sees the bucket of water come out he will run all night.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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LEB- It's not just about what is defined as torture, but who it is done too. So far not a single one of these guys has been convicted of anything. You want to place a terrorist mastermind in solitary for the rest of his life even if it drives him crazy that's fine with me...so long as he was afforded a fair trial with fair representation. We are supposed to take on faith that these guys have done bad things and it turns out many of them likely have not. They were just scooped up and shipped off.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Fattrad:"my definition of torture is when permanent injury is incurred. Waterboarding does not qualify in my book."
Fattrad, you can come up with your own private personal definition of torture if you like. However under the Geneva Conventions and the U.S. War Crimes Act, waterboarding is a criminal act.
After World War II, we (the United States) sentenced Japanese to hard time for waterboarding U.S. POWs.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Wrong AGAIN LOIS.
As I have repeated MANY times, expert interrogators from as far back as WW2 (that's world ware two for you) were asked about waterboarding and other methods the bush war criminals advocate and use.
The said, no question about it, that's torture.
We don't need to define it, the definition has been known for some time, and emphatically at that.
By the way, the guidelines that the bush war criminals use were developed by, guess who-- the Chinese and Koreans in the Korean war!
You probably don't believe that, what with your gut feelings and honed instincts and all, but this is well documented.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Usually torture has the goal of getting someone to talk. In FatTrad's case, the goal would be getting him to STOP talking.
If we hold FatTrad's head under water at the FaceLift, he would undoubtedly claim it was torture, or at least cruel and unusual punishment - he'd have to stop yapping. But he'd certainly be quiet, for a while anyway. If we do it in the Merced, we'd probably have to get an environmental impact report or something.
Smearing him with honey and staking him out on a bear locker until he talks (or doesn't talk) would just be beyond the pale.
Way more fun to just mock him and his half-baked ideas.
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