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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Historicity is my new favorite word.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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I've heard that High... I don't know either way. 'evidence' seems anecdotal. I could be wrong. Doesn't seem like science thought. Any two 'original sources (are there any?)agree on major points?
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andanother
climber
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I wonder if Jesus had toenails and nipples.
Since his dad never intended for him to do any clawing or nursing, I doubt He would have given those things to His son.
I wonder why he gave them to us.
I guess this is one of those things that is intended to "test our faith". Isn't that how the religious folks dismiss all the evidence that disproves their theory? They write it off as a "test"?
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Double D
climber
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Evidence? There's more evidence for Jesus than any other recorded literature's accuracy prior to the printing press.
Read Josh McDowell’s book, “A Case for Christ” then we can talk. Or better yet, read the Bible in its entirety and you will find agreement between roughly 40 authors in 66 books, some were nomads, some were kings and some were shepherds.
Of course I don’t expect many of you will have the courage to truly look into the “perfect law of liberty.” My experience is that those who pose questions really don’t want to look truthfully into the Jesus or the Bible, but I do hope I’m wrong. It’s way easier just to bag on Christians without any real ammo! (-;
Best wishes to all who are searching.
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WBraun
climber
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It's not a cheap thing.
So .....
He heard there was a master of the higher spiritual understanding. I will go and "see" if this is true said the
so called scientist. Since he had no knowledge of this higher truth how could he even begin to have any preconceived "see".
Anyways he goes to visit the masters abode. He knocks on the door and master appears.
Aaacckk! the scientist "sees" an ordinary looking person appear at the door, nothing he "expected".
You are the great master I heard, he says. The master did not reply and just stood there.
Nothing happened so the master closed the door while saying nothing. The so called scientist went home and said to himself this is bullsh'it that guy was bogus for sure!
The real scientist came and the same thing happened, except he didn't leave after the master closed the door.
He waited outside the door all night and froze his ass off. In the morning the master went to the door and saw the scientist and asked why you still here?
He answered "I want to learn the real truth."
The master closed the door again, and the scientist remained outside to freeze his ass off again.
A a short while later the master open the door and gave him a blanket and some food so the scientist wouldn't die. Heh heh
For each test the master thru at the scientist and each real test the sincere scientist threw at the master there was an honest recipient which went on for many many years ........
Until .......
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Blight
Social climber
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"My experience is that those who pose questions really don’t want to look truthfully into the Jesus or the Bible, but I do hope I’m wrong"
Sadly, you're not wrong.
It's obvious to any moderately intelligent person that there is a glaring contradiction in what atheists and agnostics here (and indeed everywhere) are saying.
On the one hand, we see them say that religious people are wrong. Flat out incorrect. Their beliefs, we are told, are irrational and nonsensical.
Then almost immediately, the discussion turns to whether Jesus existed or not.
Doesn't that strike you as more than a little odd? What we're seeing are people who have reached a firm and pretty radical opinion about religion and christianity in particular, but who don't even know that most basic building blocks of that religion.
Let me clarify that: we're talking about people who say that religion is definitely wrong, but who don't know the first thing about it.
So how do they know that? Is it rational or even sensible to claim that something you know nothing about is defintely wrong?
The answer to you question about the honesty of atheists is right here in this thread for the reading.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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ROTFLMAO, Blight, the most dishonest and disingenuous of all posters on ST, questions the honesty of others.
Go fvck yourself you human turd.
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Blight
Social climber
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"Go fvck yourself you human turd."
:)
Do you think you're proving me wrong with your agression and abuse?
Do you think you're showing that atheists are caring, thoughtful and forgiving?
Or are you showing that you really, really don't like it when it's time for you to look in the mirror?
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Sheesh, I hate to get myself back into the fray here, but I am truly interested in what makes folks like Blight tick. Your aversion to atheism is such that it would seem that believing in ANYTHING theological would be preferable to not believing in God. I guess if I believed in Odin or Thor that would be preferable to being an atheist.
Seems to me, the only thing you have to be afraid from atheists is a little derision. You are far more likely to be killed by someone who believes in God in a way different from you.
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Blight
Social climber
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"Your aversion to atheism is such that it would seem that believing in ANYTHING theological would be preferable to not believing in God."
Again, everyone knows that I didn't say anything of the sort. I think HH The Dalai lama said it best when he said, "For those who may not find happiness to exercise religious faith, it's okay to remain a radical atheist, it's absolutely an individual right, but the important thing is with a compassionate heart -- then no problem".
"Seems to me, the only thing you have to be afraid from atheists is a little derision. You are far more likely to be killed by someone who believes in God in a way different from you. "
Actually neither of these statements are true.
For the first, in my many years on the web I have never, ever been so much as spoken to harshly by a religious person. Atheists on the other hand have banned me from message boards, tried to hack my email accounts, threatened me with violence more times than I could count, slandered me over and over and threatened to kill me and my family.
For the second, almost all the top five mass murderers of all time were atheists. Between them they were responsible for the deaths of more people than every religious war, skirmish and supertopo thread in history combined. The often-repeated nonsense about who awful and violent religious people are is just a relic of ancient history.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Thanks for the clarification, Blight.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Author:
Blight
Social climber
From:
"Go fvck yourself you human turd."
:)
Do you think you're proving me wrong with your agression and abuse?""
NO, I think I am fighting fire with fire, for the entertainment value only, because all you can do is squirm around and irritate people, and you never offer anything of substance, You idiot. All you deserve is abuse.
""Do you think you're showing that atheists are caring, thoughtful and forgiving?""
YOU do not deserve any forgiveness or any caring. You are a vile slug, and you need to crawl back under your rock. And I do not speak for 'atheists' (another one of your idiotic bad logic tricks) I speak for me, and I say, you are a human turd.
""Or are you showing that you really, really don't like it when it's time for you to look in the mirror?"""
HAHAHA as if you are the mirror? Give me a break. You are a great hairy reeking TROLL, nothing more. A rock has more spirituality than you have. A rock has more honesty too.
YOU give those who truly follow the best aspects of religion a bad name, and denigrate their cause with your crap.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Entertainment value?... check.
Compassionate heart?... check.
Mutually exclusive?... Nah.
Whatever gets you through the Blight, it's alright.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
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Blight
Social climber
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Ha ha ha!
Best Fiction Award?
;)
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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LEB, How can you critique chocolate cake if you've never tasted it? "Taste and see, the lord is good, he tastes like honey in the rock". smiles and a good Monday to you. Lynne
I know, I've been tasting the goodness for over 30 years.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jennie is my goddess.
I even have graven images of her.
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WBraun
climber
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Blight
The great atheist Sankaracarya, aka (Lord Shiva)....
Sankaracarya purported the theory that there is no God and that one can go on with his work and imagine God in any form just to keep peace and tranquillity in society.
This is also more or less based on this idea of chance and necessity.
Anyways ..... Sankaracarya came and preached his nonsensical philosophy because the Supreme lord told him too. A certain class of people will want this type of knowledge although false and will ultimately mislead them the supreme lord will grant their wishes.
Just as the father of a small boy.
The child is admant that he wants to stick his finger in a moving fan to satisify his curosity even after his father told him what will happen if he so chose to do anyways.
The kind father unplugged the fan and let it slow down a bit and then yold the child "go stick your finger in there now".
Yeeeoooowwww! hahaha
Anyways ... The great atheist Sankaracarya in the end couldn't stand misleading anymore and preached against the very philosophy he was told to instruct onto their deaf ears.
One must be very careful if one attacks atheists without understanding the full picture and all the subtle naunces behind the motives.
Mortals like us better leave that to the liberated souls who know how to turn the fan off correctly.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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granite climber, I did not write that very clearly. sorry, let me try again.
I believe the whole bible is among other things an instruction manual for life. I liken it to the DVD for our very complex auto. I don't understand alot of it but I guess I trust the manufaturer knows about his product so I keep after it til I understand it or someone explains it to me. Some parts I simply don't get. But I don't throw it out because of that.
But, I know that many get bogged down in reading the entire bible starting at the beginning.....so I was suggesting that people start with just the words of jesus in matthew, mark. luke and john.
Here are a few that have meant alot to me.
Matthew 6...."Do not store up for yourselves treasurers on earth...For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
"Who of you by worrying, can add a single hour to your life....Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brothers eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye ?"
And Finally Matt. 11 "come to me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest."
Like I said to LEB, hard to critize being a jesus follower if you've never done it.
A good Monday to you, granite, and thanks for your post on the K2 thread. Lynne
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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It's not what you think or believe.
It's what you are and how you are that counts.
That's why Lynne could be wrong about the Bible and still be right in her heart and with us, because she stays true to that heart
Peace
Karl
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