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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2010 - 08:17pm PT
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Mucci – Ah, ok. So, you are saying that you grind the SDS bits like this...?
(If I’ve got it wrong, I’ll nuke the image…)
Not sure which generation those Hurricanes with the raised “striker” belong to.
“I have not tried a HSS bit on the Hurricane, could you fab a different collet and maybe groove the bit?”
Not quite following you there. For 3/8” or 1/4” bits?
Here’s the basic rundown on the Hurricane:
The drill originally comes fitted with a 25/64” collet; this collet will accept SDS bits as well as 3/8” or 25/64” straight-shank bits (HSS bits). For hard rock, like granite, a 3/8” HSS bit drills a hole that is too tight, so a 25/64” bit should be used for 3/8” bolts (5-piece, etc. and wedge).
Additional collets can be purchased (machine tool supply) for the Hurricane drill and are sized in increments of 1/64”. Collets have a range of 1/64” and will accept a bit of the same diameter as well as a bit that is 1/64” smaller in diameter.
So, for placing the original Rawl 5/16” buttonheads in hard rock, an 11/32” collet should be used, to accommodate either a 21/64” or 11/32” bit.
For placing 1/4” buttonheads in hard rock, a 17/64” collet should be used, to accommodate a 17/64” bit. 1/4” bits drill a hole that is too tight for buttonheads – the hole will crater and the bolt will likely bend and refuse to occupy the hole.
Just happen to have a couple of new collets handy…
Here’s a pic of a 17/64” collet; when it comes to stance drilling, I won’t leave the ground without one.
17/64” double-angle collet (200DA0266)
(The second yellow container and both stickers say “MADE IN USA”… Not sure about the Costa Rica thing…)
As far as losing any energy per strike with the raised striker, the only way I see that happening is if the hammer strikes are glancing significantly off of the drill; but that is more of a matter of drilling technique and hammer condition than drill design. I don’t feel like I lose any efficiency with the Hurricane. I’ve only taken a Hurricane to a grinder because the edges of the drill holder (outside of the striker) start to mushroom – it’s mainly to clean up the drill, although I also put a slight (flat) texture on the top of the striker and on the face of my hammers, for better “grip”… You know, like waffle-head framing hammers and 16p nails. But it doesn’t take long for either to regain its shine. You can also grind a hammer face such that it is slightly concave – this will also help to maintain solid hammer/drill contact. But aim is the key. And my sunglasses say… “Watch out for those back swings!”
Is it time for a beer yet? Hope this helps! I still need to get my drill kit out of storage for some photos…
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Mar 31, 2010 - 08:23pm PT
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Yes that is what I grind on the SDS bits,
You answered my other question about the size of the collet that accepts the 3/8 HSS bit.
I would assume then you could chop off the back end of a sds bit, and still use it in the hurricane?
Shorter is better.
Thanks for the info, helped out tons.
Happy drilling!
OH and I still need a hurricane drill!.............anybody?
Mucci
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2010 - 08:38pm PT
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“I would assume then you could chop off the back end of a sds bit, and still use it in the hurricane?”
You got it. It helps, but you can only get rid of 3/8” or 1/2” before the 25/64” collet begins to lose contact with what’s left of the SDS shank. I’ve got a few SDS bits like that but am too lazy to chop 3/8” SDS bits these days for how little I use them (only for drilling out 1/4” holes while hanging on a rope).
Yet another advantage of the Hurricane… You can chop HSS bits down to any length that you want. The collet system allows for an almost unlimited number of bit possibilities.
Glad to share what I can, Mucci.
Oh, and t*r… the proper term is bolting geek! We can’t help it. ;)
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2010 - 09:32pm PT
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Forgot to mention… SDS bits are pretty burly – you will need something like a carbide hacksaw blade to chop the bottom off. A regular hacksaw blade won’t do it. Got power tools?
17/64” HSS (high-speed steel) drill bits
Hey everyone, thanks for all of your great photo contributions to this thread!
(edit: ...to edit, and edit above, cuz I am being a retard again...)
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Hey Minerals, I didn't forget about the duel.
I'm a working man you see and am hardly ever in Tuolumne. The end of the season was fast approaching and I knew I wasn't going to make it back up there so I just let it go. With spring on the horizon and summer to follow shortly, maybe we could have a second go eh?
Besides, I'd really like to check out your drill rig set up. If it is faster I'm definitely interested.
Like I say though, I'm a working man and my weekends are priceless, so we'll have to make plans to climb something as well.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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I think what is pretty evident from all the discussions on this thread is that there isn't one *best* method for hand drilling. I have drilled probably 300+ holes with 3/8" SDS carbide-tipped bits and have never broken a tip or a drill bit. In fact, I have been using the same drill bit for the past four or five years, just sharpening up the bevel on the carbide tip after every 10 or so holes (whatever I drill in a day at the rock).
I think it is clear that drilling style has a huge effect on the durability of one's bolting gear. It is good that you all are experimenting with bit shapes, etc, but I think the durability issue is more a result of drilling style than the specific equipment choice. Matching your bolting equipment to your bolting style is probably the most important factor.
Yes, the collet design of the Petzl RockPec is a bit of an issue (I have seen several modes of failure), but I still prefer it over the Pika (too complicated to change bits and the set screws are a real liability) and the Hurricane (not a bad second choice, but the two wrench design for tightening bits adds some complexity). YMMV.
Bruce
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2010 - 01:56am PT
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Cool, Salamanizer. Yeah, maybe we can plan on something for this summer. I’d be happy to show you the kit. Climbing sounds good too, but nothing too serious as I can’t climb what you can climb. Maybe others can get involved as well and we can do some testing of sorts, as Bruce suggested earlier and now mentioned again. And we don’t have to bet a case of Sierra – we can just all drink it instead!
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Greg Barnes
climber
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So Bruce, how many holes with that same bit?
Not counting Pinnacles, since you can drill endlessly there, clean off the bit, and it looks brand new...
Just wondering, since I think my max was 70+ holes in Tuolumne granite with a single SDS bit before the flanges wore down too much (so it got harder to tap in the 5-pieces). But since nearly all of those were expanding old 1/4" holes, it's probably not a good comparison.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Just landed a Hurricane via the Fleabay!
No wrenches or original packaging, but the search is over.
Look out HSS Bits.........
WHOOP!
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Tork
climber
Yosemite
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Get that thing down here, we have work to do!
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Mucci- I have a bunch of Pika set screws. I found a place to buy them online, but had to buy 20 minimum (all 20 for only $6 or thereabouts). Email me your address and I'll send a couple your way.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Dammit Mucci, you snatched that drill right out from under my nose.
I spotted it, put it on my watch list, checked my finances via... online banking, went back for the purchase and Aahhhh!!!
The "HORROR" It's sold!
So it was "YOU"... Damn you MUCCI!!! You got lucky,,,,, this time...
BWAhahahahahahahahahaha!
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Norman Claude
climber
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Mr Kamps Grade 4, 5.11c Fairview Dome, Tuolumne Meadows
Okay so here's the story on the 5th pitch of Mr Kamps. Vern and I always drilled on the lead and tried to engineer safe routes ie placing pro before you'd hit an ankle breaking ledge. We also tried to use trad pro instead of bolts where we could. And when I climbed with Kamps I found out if I owned a pair of balls or mustard seeds.
Pitch 5:
I'm climbing up and past a sleeping Clevenger swaddled in a head covering sweater. Twenty feet above Vern I'm pissed I'm not getting more love for this bravery. I have one choice and that's to mantle onto the sloper. No chance of letting go where I'm at. 5.10 D climbing to this point. One bolt, one bit, one biner. "Watch me Vern". Answer: Don't f %&^%% ng blow it". No time for self pity. Reality now; crystal clear and right in front of me. Up and onto the sloper praying (might as well) I don't pinwheel backward onto Vern. I manage to stand up and then test whether I can let go. Ten to fifteen seconds at best. I break the bit because it'll drill faster and I can't hit the holder with the bit at full length. Blast the loose granite. A blasphemy to be hitting Mother Earth and especially Fairview like this. I start hitting the sh#t out of the holder. Bacher's playing his horn down at DAFF. I can see Kamps sitting with him. They're watching this show. With brother stoked pride I hit harder. Finally I blow the hole out and sink all one and one quarter RAWL inches and the hanger I made in high school metal shop.
Two more bolts is all I manage. I lower down to the belay and in a scene we've perfected countless times Vern tightens his shoes and takes the next 5.11c shift to the belay.
Ah Tuolumne, Vern, Kamps, Bacher. Ah, brothers and sisters.
Norman Claude
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sal- BWHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!
That thing was not up for long! I saw it, took a second look to make sure it was a Hurricane, BAM!
It's cool we can use it this season on one of those projects!
Mucci
Norm- what a cool story! Man, nothing like gunning it.
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dfinnecy
Social climber
'stralia
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Bump just cause drilling from hooks or even better stance is rad,.. +1 for climbs with heart.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Anybody ever fallen off while drilling a bolt from stance? Let's hear the stories or I will have to bore you with mine.
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